modern christian music

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

Saul_Sabia

2005-05-18 10:54:47 UTC

So for some unknown reason i've been turning on the christian music
channel on my radio and just listening to it as i drive. maybe i'm just
getting bored of hearing the same-old-same-old that i always listen to.

anyways, it's some praise channel... and i'm struck at A) how crappy
christian music is, and B) how slow it all is.

let me qualify the first statement. i've heard some pretty decent
christian music lately... switchfoot, for instance. good stuff. but
in-between i have to listen to "shout to the lord" (okay, it's not that
bad) and all kinds of other mid- to slow-tempo whiney "your name is
holy" or "i lift you up on high" or "i lift your holy name on high" or
"you are worthy to receive my worship" or "you're worthy to have me
lift your holy name on high" or whatever.

it all seems so ... formulaic. it's like take any love song, delete the
sex references (unlike cartman did in south park... LMAO!) and just put
jesus' name in at random. and the big thing is that it's only one or
two songs that _don't_ have jesus' name splattered all over, too!

the big thing was that it seemed like it was all mid-tempo. dah dah dah
dah dah DA dah dah ... lightly bouncing along at 60-80 bpm... is all
radio-christian music like that? is that the compromise you have to
make to appeal to the biggest slice of christians?

a little boring for me. i'm beginning to crave a different beat, a
different time signature, a distorted guitar, or a bpm that rises above
60. but i'm still sticking to it. i'm going to bloody understand the
modern christian if it kills me! (and the boredom might!)

i found a book at the library that was an encyclopedia of christian
music. it was interesting because just about every single entry either
had a comparison to a fairly well-known "secular" artist ("his voice
could be compared to Bono's, or Elton's...." shyeah right), says that
this artist did for christian music what "xxxx" did for secular music
("DC talk did for christian music what Beastie Boys and Nirvana did for
all other radio!" ummm... so why haven't i heard more than one song
from them?), or bemoaned the apparent injustice in the music industry
("if the music industry had God in it, the Newsboys would've broken all
over mainstream music!" ummmm, sure. still never heard a newsboys
song).

the funniest part was when the author said "yeah, christian music is
always said to lag behind mainstream music, and it probably always
will." is that because it's all RIPPED OFF?

hmmm. i forgot what this post was about. damn. oh yeah, modern
christian music. so, does it all sound like crap still, like it did
about five years ago when i listened last?

i'd like to find a christian, upbeat, uptempo, ska or punk band with
vaguely intelligent lyrics that can use more phrases than "lift his
name on high" or "i love to worship" or even "shout to the lord". maybe
even... gasp.... write a song that might be about something ... *gasp*
... else?

what a ramble. anyways, it's been on my mind.

i've been toying around with the idea of writing my own christian
music. it's sick and perverse, i know, especially since i'm not
christian, but it seems so easy... it would probably irk my girl (who
is christian) to know that a non-christian writes better music than a
christian does.... hmmm.... in the spirit of perversity, i just might
do it...

now what's a synonym for "lift your holy name on high" ... hrmm ...

Saul

2005-05-18 11:34:33 UTC

Permalink

Post by Saul_Sabia
So for some unknown reason i've been turning on the christian music
channel on my radio and just listening to it as i drive. maybe i'm just
getting bored of hearing the same-old-same-old that i always listen to.
anyways, it's some praise channel... and i'm struck at A) how crappy
christian music is, and B) how slow it all is.
let me qualify the first statement. i've heard some pretty decent
christian music lately... switchfoot, for instance. good stuff. but
in-between i have to listen to "shout to the lord" (okay, it's not that
bad) and all kinds of other mid- to slow-tempo whiney "your name is
holy" or "i lift you up on high" or "i lift your holy name on high" or
"you are worthy to receive my worship" or "you're worthy to have me
lift your holy name on high" or whatever.
it all seems so ... formulaic. it's like take any love song, delete the
sex references (unlike cartman did in south park... LMAO!) and just put
jesus' name in at random. and the big thing is that it's only one or
two songs that _don't_ have jesus' name splattered all over, too!
the big thing was that it seemed like it was all mid-tempo. dah dah dah
dah dah DA dah dah ... lightly bouncing along at 60-80 bpm... is all
radio-christian music like that? is that the compromise you have to
make to appeal to the biggest slice of christians?
a little boring for me. i'm beginning to crave a different beat, a
different time signature, a distorted guitar, or a bpm that rises above
60. but i'm still sticking to it. i'm going to bloody understand the
modern christian if it kills me! (and the boredom might!)
i found a book at the library that was an encyclopedia of christian
music. it was interesting because just about every single entry either
had a comparison to a fairly well-known "secular" artist ("his voice
could be compared to Bono's, or Elton's...." shyeah right), says that
this artist did for christian music what "xxxx" did for secular music
("DC talk did for christian music what Beastie Boys and Nirvana did for
all other radio!" ummm... so why haven't i heard more than one song
from them?), or bemoaned the apparent injustice in the music industry
("if the music industry had God in it, the Newsboys would've broken all
over mainstream music!" ummmm, sure. still never heard a newsboys
song).
the funniest part was when the author said "yeah, christian music is
always said to lag behind mainstream music, and it probably always
will." is that because it's all RIPPED OFF?
hmmm. i forgot what this post was about. damn. oh yeah, modern
christian music. so, does it all sound like crap still, like it did
about five years ago when i listened last?
i'd like to find a christian, upbeat, uptempo, ska or punk band with
vaguely intelligent lyrics that can use more phrases than "lift his
name on high" or "i love to worship" or even "shout to the lord". maybe
even... gasp.... write a song that might be about something ... *gasp*
... else?
what a ramble. anyways, it's been on my mind.
i've been toying around with the idea of writing my own christian
music. it's sick and perverse, i know, especially since i'm not
christian, but it seems so easy... it would probably irk my girl (who
is christian) to know that a non-christian writes better music than a
christian does.... hmmm.... in the spirit of perversity, i just might
do it...
now what's a synonym for "lift your holy name on high" ... hrmm ...
Saul

It is what some might call Musak for the terminally stupid. I can't stand
the drivel. Give me the music of the perverse, the homosexual, the menally
ill and maybe a little music of the normal man. Now that is real music
written by real people. What am I referring to? Classical music.

rj

--
"I'm an atheist, thank God." - Dave Allen

Witziges Rätsel

2005-05-18 12:21:17 UTC

Permalink

"Modern Christian" is an oxymoron.

Christian M. Mericle

2005-05-18 15:12:05 UTC

Permalink

Sorry for the top post. I've added rec.music.christian to the
crosspost list.

What you're hearing is probably along the lines of Adult Contemporary
Christian music. It's like listening to a secular hip-hop station and
assuming all secular music sounds like that. Which, we both know, it
doesn't.

You might try this one if you have time to listen online:
http://www.christiannetcast.com/listen/player.asp?station=897power-fm.

I've not listened to it a lot, but of what I've heard it's a lot more
upbeat than the Christian station I listen to at work.

-- Christian (aka Inky)

Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
World Vision (Darfur) -- http://donate.wvus.org/OA_HTML/xxwvibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=10025&item=1072182
ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

Saul_Sabia

2005-05-20 02:39:23 UTC

Permalink

well, it just so happened that i started to listen to another christian
station, and it sounds really familiar... like tunes that actual bands
would write if they were christian and had been drinking a bit.

quite a bit better, actually. my urge to throw up has gone down quite a
bit and i might find myself enjoying it.

but i'm easy to please.... throw in a couple of dynamic changes,
distorted guitars, a few vocal filter effects or a vocoder and i just
might be happy enough to ignore the words....

Saul

Christian M. Mericle

2005-05-20 14:15:07 UTC

Permalink

Post by Saul_Sabia
well, it just so happened that i started to listen to another christian
station, and it sounds really familiar... like tunes that actual bands
would write if they were christian and had been drinking a bit.
quite a bit better, actually. my urge to throw up has gone down quite a
bit and i might find myself enjoying it.
but i'm easy to please.... throw in a couple of dynamic changes,
distorted guitars, a few vocal filter effects or a vocoder and i just
might be happy enough to ignore the words....
Saul

I think the idea that Christian bands copy secular bands is true. I
think that it is, for the most part, true that secular bands copy each
other and even themselves (Nickleback for instance).

-- Christian (aka Inky)

Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
World Vision (Darfur) -- http://donate.wvus.org/OA_HTML/xxwvibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=10025&item=1072182
ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

2005-05-18 17:08:25 UTC

Permalink

Post by Saul_Sabia
let me qualify the first statement. i've heard some pretty decent
christian music lately... switchfoot, for instance. good stuff. but
in-between i have to listen to "shout to the lord" (okay, it's not that
bad) and all kinds of other mid- to slow-tempo whiney "your name is
holy" or "i lift you up on high" or "i lift your holy name on high" or
"you are worthy to receive my worship" or "you're worthy to have me
lift your holy name on high" or whatever.

If you listen to any song over and over again, you will get that same
feeling. I agree that Shout to the Lord is slow. I personally do not like
the song that much, but in worship it is a good way to praise the lord (for
worship music isn't about how it makes us feel, but how it brings glory to
God).

Post by Saul_Sabia
it all seems so ... formulaic. it's like take any love song, delete the
sex references (unlike cartman did in south park... LMAO!) and just put
jesus' name in at random. and the big thing is that it's only one or
two songs that _don't_ have jesus' name splattered all over, too!

Most Christian music isn't like this at all. I have never heard a Christian
song that I felt has mocked or mimiced a mainstream genre song.

Post by Saul_Sabia
the big thing was that it seemed like it was all mid-tempo. dah dah dah
dah dah DA dah dah ... lightly bouncing along at 60-80 bpm... is all
radio-christian music like that? is that the compromise you have to
make to appeal to the biggest slice of christians?

Maybe on that particular radio station you are listening to, yes. I have
heard some good songs on christian-radio, but if you truly desire to listen
to good Christian music, I suggest you dig for yourself. Here are some good
artists:

Michael W. Smith (mostly slower music)
Hillsong (try a song called "One Way"
Kirk Franklin
Sonic Flood

and these last two you might like:
Steve Curtis Chapman
Mike Kearney.

I suggest Mike Kearney, since he makes his own music and plays mostly in the
Christian-rap genre. He is a white guy who plays very well and many of his
songs do not appear to be Christian songs until you understand them from a
worship perspective.

-RS

Bonnie Bitch

2005-05-18 18:57:41 UTC

Permalink

Post by RS

How does poorly-written music do that?

Post by RS

Most Christian music isn't like this at all. I have never heard a Christian
song that I felt has mocked or mimiced a mainstream genre song.

???

Post by RS

sings flat

Post by RS
Hillsong (try a song called "One Way"
Kirk Franklin

sounds like a buzz saw

Post by RS
Sonic Flood

needs tuning lessons.

Post by RS
Steve Curtis Chapman

sings like he's constipated, major pitch problems, agent of Satan
(married and divorced how many times? How many numerous affairs?)

Post by RS
Mike Kearney.
I suggest Mike Kearney, since he makes his own music and plays mostly in the
Christian-rap genre. He is a white guy who plays very well and many of his
songs do not appear to be Christian songs until you understand them from a
worship perspective.

Too bad you have no idea what you're talking about.
If the purpose of liturgical music is to provide an aesthetic which
enables the listener to achieve a communion with something outside of
themselves (as you suggested), then why do you advocate the use of
music which is "composed" (for lack of a better term) without the
actual music in mind?

Long Live Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli!!!!

Bonnie Bitch

Christian M. Mericle

2005-05-18 21:13:27 UTC

Permalink

On Wed, 18 May 2005 11:57:41 -0700, Bonnie Bitch
<snip>

Post by Bonnie Bitch

Post by RS
Steve Curtis Chapman

sings like he's constipated, major pitch problems, agent of Satan
(married and divorced how many times? How many numerous affairs?)

Married: Once.
Divorced: None.
Affairs: None that I've ever heard of.

<snip>

Post by Bonnie Bitch
Too bad you have no idea what you're talking about.

In the clueless department apparently he has company in you.

Post by Bonnie Bitch
Bonnie Bitch

-- Christian (aka Inky)

Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
World Vision (Darfur) -- http://donate.wvus.org/OA_HTML/xxwvibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=10025&item=1072182
ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

Saul_Sabia

2005-05-20 02:46:25 UTC

Permalink

Post by Bonnie Bitch
If the purpose of liturgical music is to provide an aesthetic which
enables the listener to achieve a communion with something outside of
themselves (as you suggested), then why do you advocate the use of
music which is "composed" (for lack of a better term) without the
actual music in mind?

huh? my god, my dream-in-the-middle-of-the-day came true! people still
don't make sense and babies are still ugly as sin until the blackouts
come!
god, i hate falling asleep in the middle of the day, it messes with me
so badly.

Saul

Bonnie Bitch

2005-05-20 08:30:47 UTC

Permalink

huh?

If the purpose of liturgical music is to provide an aesthetic which
enables the listener to achieve a communion with something outside of
themselves (as you suggested), then why do you advocate the use of
music which is "composed" (for lack of a better term) without the
actual music in mind?

I know, I know, I probably lost you at "if," but hey -- I tried it the
nice way. And this wasn't even in response to what YOU wrote, bunky.
But let me dumb it down for you, ok?

Try this:
Music is not ear candy for musical whore wannabes, bunky.
Christstain worship ear candy (it ain't music) isn't about the music,
it's about how many times you can fit in the words "jesus" and "god."
"Screw the music" is the same attitude all the amateur liturgical
musical-whore-wannabes trot out, thinking it makes the music somehow
good. Or that just because the music keeps saying "jesus" and "god,"
that it's music, when the emphasis isn't on the MUSIC.

HTH, GICH, HAND, TYVM.

Ein Prosit der Gemütlichkeit --

Bonnie Bitch

Saul_Sabia

2005-05-21 08:51:32 UTC

Permalink

thank you for clarifying. i figured you were trying to say something
like that, but i wanted to be certain.

Saul

Bonnie Bitch

2005-05-21 09:31:21 UTC

Permalink

Saul, sweetie babe, honey-lamb --

What the fuck are you babbling about now?
No one (I bet not even you, thanks to the drugs) knows what you're
talking about if you REFUSE to quote the text to which you are
responding.

Don't be such an obtuse jackass, dude.

Ein Prosit der Gemütlichkeit --

Bonnie Bitch

AntiSocial

2005-05-26 07:53:51 UTC

Permalink

Post by Bonnie Bitch
Saul, sweetie babe, honey-lamb --
What the fuck are you babbling about now?
No one (I bet not even you, thanks to the drugs) knows what you're
talking about if you REFUSE to quote the text to which you are
responding.
Don't be such an obtuse jackass, dude.

Do I dare point out the fact that you don't post what you're quoting
either?

Or that neither of you has said anything much outside of baseless
personal insults for the past, oh, two days?

*begin sarcasm*
But that would mean bringing logic before an "artist", so why bother?
*end sarcasm* (just so there's no misunderstandings)

Bonnie B.

2005-05-26 09:04:55 UTC

Permalink

On Thu, 26 May 2005 07:53:51 GMT, AntiSocial

Post by AntiSocial

Do I dare point out the fact that you don't post what you're quoting
either?

Well, you could. And then I would just remind you that I was making a
point, to confuse whatshisface.
But then you'd just snip it out anyway, so kwitcherbitchin.

Post by AntiSocial
Or that neither of you has said anything much outside of baseless
personal insults for the past, oh, two days?

Thanks for joining the club, bunky.

Post by AntiSocial
*begin sarcasm*
But that would mean bringing logic before an "artist", so why bother?
*end sarcasm* (just so there's no misunderstandings)

You misspelled "pissant bullshit."

Note lack of sarcasm.

Ein Prosit der Gemütlichkeit --

Bonnie Bitch

AntiSocial

2005-05-28 06:37:25 UTC

Permalink

Post by Bonnie B.
On Thu, 26 May 2005 07:53:51 GMT, AntiSocial

Post by AntiSocial

Do I dare point out the fact that you don't post what you're quoting
either?

Well, you could. And then I would just remind you that I was making a
point, to confuse whatshisface.
But then you'd just snip it out anyway, so kwitcherbitchin.

Wait... there was a time in which you made a point? Funny, I saw nothing
but pointless bitching and attempts to make yourself look smart.

Post by Bonnie B.

Post by AntiSocial
Or that neither of you has said anything much outside of baseless
personal insults for the past, oh, two days?

Thanks for joining the club, bunky.

You mean I got your presidential seal of approival? w007.

Post by Bonnie B.

Post by AntiSocial
*begin sarcasm*
But that would mean bringing logic before an "artist", so why bother?
*end sarcasm* (just so there's no misunderstandings)

You misspelled "pissant bullshit."

Actually, I never said that. Was that you trying, and failing, to be
clever, or did you forget your glasses somewhere?

Saul_Sabia

2005-05-20 02:44:02 UTC

Permalink

I don't dig Michael Smith, i figured that out. it's been too long since
i've heard his music, so i can't call him pussy no matter how much i
want to, i'll just content myself with saying that i remember not
liking it. a lot.

i'll look into the rest of them if i come across 'em. i don't have DSL
yet (countdown: like 2 weeks) but when i do it'll be easier.

i think that how music makes us feel has a direct relationship to the
quality of the praise, if that's an issue. it's like putting on music
to have sex to.... if you like the music, and get into it, the sex will
be better. if it's bland and crappy and you're not into it, the
intimacy-thing will suffer. that kind of thing.

in other words, it's hard to praise god to muzak.

Saul

Christian M. Mericle

2005-05-20 14:25:10 UTC

Permalink

Post by Saul_Sabia
I don't dig Michael Smith, i figured that out. it's been too long since
i've heard his music, so i can't call him pussy no matter how much i
want to, i'll just content myself with saying that i remember not
liking it. a lot.

I don't get why the guy gets nominated for so many awards. It's almost
like he's mindlessly preprinted on the list and the other noms get
written in beneath him. I'm not a big MWS fan and never have been.

<snip>

-- Christian (aka Inky)

Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
World Vision (Darfur) -- http://donate.wvus.org/OA_HTML/xxwvibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=10025&item=1072182
ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

Bonnie Bitch

2005-05-18 17:41:46 UTC

Permalink

Honey, go to the car stereo store, have them install a CD player, and
then RUN to Border's or Tower Music and spend a MINIMUM of $300 on
CD's that will now stay in your car.

Post by Saul_Sabia
anyways, it's some praise channel... and i'm struck at A) how crappy
christian music is, and B) how slow it all is.

As a working professional musician, I have some rules by which I live.

1. I don't set foot into a KKKatholic church for less than $100 per
service.

2. I don't do that bloody fucking awful Christian pageant shit for
less than $125 per service.

And they pay it, when they realize that I'm underpricing my
colleagues.

Yup. I've been saying for years now that God, Inc. should sue the
bastards for copyright infringement. Who in their right mind would
want their name used in the shittiest of music so that an industry of
musical whores can make more money?

But wouldn't that create some issues with the lyrics?

Yup. That's how the industry panders, so they can make $$$.

Post by Saul_Sabia
a little boring for me. i'm beginning to crave a different beat, a
different time signature, a distorted guitar, or a bpm that rises above
60. but i'm still sticking to it. i'm going to bloody understand the
modern christian if it kills me! (and the boredom might!)

You might want to start that drinking habit now, dude.

Post by Saul_Sabia
i found a book at the library that was an encyclopedia of christian
music. it was interesting because just about every single entry either
had a comparison to a fairly well-known "secular" artist ("his voice
could be compared to Bono's, or Elton's...." shyeah right), says that
this artist did for christian music what "xxxx" did for secular music
("DC talk did for christian music what Beastie Boys and Nirvana did for
all other radio!" ummm... so why haven't i heard more than one song
from them?), or bemoaned the apparent injustice in the music industry
("if the music industry had God in it, the Newsboys would've broken all
over mainstream music!" ummmm, sure. still never heard a newsboys
song).

Ah, clever ploy on their part -- pretending to have standards in order
to hype their own crap.
However, they forgot to mention that any such comparison would be
unfavorable to the Christ-stain singer in question.
I mean, we could compare Amy Grant-Chapman-Still to Whitney Houston,
but Miss Amy would come away exposed as the bloody awful vocalist that
she is.
We could also comapre Sandi Patti-Helvering-Peslis to other lyric
sopranos, but that doesn't erase the fact that Ms. Patti-et al still
sings flatter than Diana Ross, which, IMO, is quite a feat, worthy of
mention in that Christ-stain music encyclopedia.)

Post by Saul_Sabia
the funniest part was when the author said "yeah, christian music is
always said to lag behind mainstream music, and it probably always
will." is that because it's all RIPPED OFF?

Ripped off from music that already sucks swill, that's part of it.

Post by Saul_Sabia
hmmm. i forgot what this post was about. damn. oh yeah, modern
christian music. so, does it all sound like crap still, like it did
about five years ago when i listened last?

Because the entire, greedy industry is stuck in a "Hey, if ain't
broke, don't fix it" mode?

Post by Saul_Sabia
i'd like to find a christian, upbeat, uptempo, ska or punk band with
vaguely intelligent lyrics that can use more phrases than "lift his
name on high" or "i love to worship" or even "shout to the lord". maybe
even... gasp.... write a song that might be about something ... *gasp*
... else?

But that would make the music in an identifiable style, and we just
can't have that, now, can we?

Post by Saul_Sabia
what a ramble. anyways, it's been on my mind.
i've been toying around with the idea of writing my own christian
music. it's sick and perverse, i know, especially since i'm not
christian, but it seems so easy... it would probably irk my girl (who
is christian) to know that a non-christian writes better music than a
christian does.... hmmm.... in the spirit of perversity, i just might
do it...

You should. Do you really think that those multiply-married musical
whores Amy Grant-Chapman-Still or Sandi Patti-Helvering-Peslis believe
what they sing? PUH-leeeeze -- they don't have one micron of integrity
between them, musical or Christian.
The Christian music racket is BIG HUGE $$$$$$. Contrary to what their
own hype says, it's not about the Almighty Sky Pixie, it's all about
the Almighty $$$.
The reason Christ-stain music is so bad is because the "composers"
(term used lossely here) of such are pandering to the masses, counting
on the listeners' need for a cathartic/emotional release which they
are missing in their day to day lives. The Christ-stain music industry
knows this and exploits it, publishing and recording the worst it has
to offer, simply because the lyrics are judiciously peppered with such
platitudes as "God this" and "Jesus that" and "we just wanna praise
your whosists."
Forget the shitty orchestrations, damn the lack of singability, and
fuck the rules of voicing from chord to chord. If the text says "Oh,
God, we just wanna glorify your thingamabob," then the music *must* be
faaaabulous.

Post by Saul_Sabia
now what's a synonym for "lift your holy name on high" ... hrmm ...

Frank Zappa already used "Fuck Me, You Ugly Son of a Bitch" and "Why
Does It Hurt When I Pee?" so those two synonyms are out.....

Long Live Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli!!!!

Bonnie Bitch

Christian M. Mericle

2005-05-18 21:18:03 UTC

Permalink

On Wed, 18 May 2005 10:41:46 -0700, Bonnie Bitch
<snip>

Post by Bonnie Bitch

Yup. That's how the industry panders, so they can make $$$.

You do realize that the "Christian music industry" is owned for a
large part by secular companies. So, if anyone's pandering, it's the
world. Not that the church doesn't pander, but if you're trying to
paint all things Christian as pandering you need to turn around and
use that same brush on pretty much everything secular as well.

<snip>

-- Christian (aka Inky)

Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
World Vision (Darfur) -- http://donate.wvus.org/OA_HTML/xxwvibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=10025&item=1072182
ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

Bazooka-Joe

2005-05-18 22:54:37 UTC

Permalink

Post by Christian M. Mericle
You do realize that the "Christian music industry" is owned for a
large part by secular companies. So, if anyone's pandering, it's the
world. Not that the church doesn't pander, but if you're trying to
paint all things Christian as pandering you need to turn around and
use that same brush on pretty much everything secular as well.

Not just owned in large by secular companies, but owned entirely by
secular companies. All the recognized non-independently owned/operated
"major" Christian labels are owned by other labels, which are owned by
other labels, which are owned by one of the big 5 (Sony, Universal,
EMI, Warner, or BMG). These are the five major distributors and unless
you're on an independent (i.e. "mom & pop") label, you're owned by one
of these guys somewhere down the road (or at the very least distributed
by them, in which case you might as well be owned by them). Put it
this way, if you're on the radio, you're definitely under one of these
umbrellas, but that's not what decides what gets put on the radio.

If you don't like what you hear the people to blame are the content
directors (who decide what songs get played) and the production
managers (who cater to a "format" or genre). Once a station has made
the decision to be a representative of a specific format, they're stuck
there. Very hard to change. I've never seen it. There's a few major
commercial Christian radio formats: AC (adult contemporary or soft
rock), Hot AC (slightly more up tempo than AC), CHR (Contemporary Hit
Radio aka "Top 40"), and Rock. The "Rock" format is actually a little
more broad than its secular counterpart, but there are actually not too
many stations of this Christian format than the others, at least not
that I've found. Air1 is pretty good, is commercial free and has
repeaters all over the nation like KLove, as well as an Internet
presence. Effect Radio also has national repeaters and an Internet
presence, which actually plays a much broader listing and some indie
stuff. Christian Pirate Radio is only online. Different cities may
have other options, but where I'm at, that's it. If you're not liking
what you're hearing check out these other stations and see if you can
listen online or if there's a repeater in your area.

But there's lots of upbeat, up tempo Christian music of every genre
from punk to thrash and rap and every different kind of rock,
alternative rock and heavy metal.

Saul_Sabia

2005-05-20 02:51:49 UTC

Permalink

personally, the music industry panders to anything with a wallet and a
dumb look on their face.

yes, but most everything is owned buy secular companies anyways, the
issue is that people _buy_ (literally, now!) into it so readily!

Saul

Saul_Sabia

2005-05-20 02:50:02 UTC

Permalink

working musicians are such snobs when it comes to music you hear on the
radio!

i guess i shouldn't bitch, though. i make my own wine and beer, and as
a result would never buy the swill from the store. yech!

Saul

Bonnie Bitch

2005-05-20 08:31:53 UTC

Permalink

Post by Saul_Sabia
working musicians are such snobs when it comes to music you hear on the
radio!

You misspelled "discerning."
Don't blame us for your lack of taste.

Ein Prosit der Gemütlichkeit --

Bonnie Bitch

Saul_Sabia

2005-05-20 08:40:52 UTC

Permalink

wow. the comment was actually *supporting* you rather than tearing you
down.

guess your nom de usenet is pretty appropriate.

but, then again, i suppose it could be a negative thing. i've met
self-styled musicians who were pretty good, to be sure... but they let
it get to their head and they became *snobs*. same thing happens to
people i've known who make their own alcohol... their "baby" creations
are so precious to them that they don't see how crappy they actually
are.

whatever. at least i don't suffer from "head in ass" syndrome.

Saul

Bonnie Bitch

2005-05-20 09:04:51 UTC

Permalink

Post by Saul_Sabia
wow. the comment was actually *supporting* you rather than tearing you
down.

Saul, babe, lay off the drugs. Then you'll be able to LIE better.

Post by Saul_Sabia
guess your nom de usenet is pretty appropriate.

Bunky, sweetie -- just FYI -- no one has any idea what the FUCK you're
babbling about, because you're one of those who don't quote text.
But, because of my faaaabulous psychic powers, I am getting that you
are probably talking to me.

Post by Saul_Sabia
but, then again, i suppose it could be a negative thing. i've met
self-styled musicians who were pretty good, to be sure... but they let
it get to their head and they became *snobs*.

Let me get this straight --
first, you call me (a professional musician) a snob, not once, not
twice, but three times now (FYVM, BTW) because I've spent my life
studying and analyzing what you refuse to, and that makes me a snob?

Now, you add in the condescending "self-styled" bit o' shit, and I'm
supposed to believe that you're being nice?

Post by Saul_Sabia
same thing happens to
people i've known who make their own alcohol... their "baby" creations
are so precious to them that they don't see how crappy they actually
are.
whatever. at least i don't suffer from "head in ass" syndrome.

Same thing happens to people I've known named Sau... oops, *P*aul who
bitch and piss and moan about how bad the music is that they listen to
BY CHOICE ..they think it's so fucking easy that they can do better,
and then make a total jackass of themselves when they bitch, piss, and
moan. And then they make wisecracks about other people being snobs and
then backpedal, fucked-up, drugged-out hypocritical liars that they
are, and claim they're not being barking douchebags.
But they can't see how far their head is up their ass because their
tonsils are blocking their view.

Happy FOAD --

Bonnie Bitch

Christian M. Mericle

2005-05-20 14:28:46 UTC

Permalink

On Fri, 20 May 2005 02:04:51 -0700, Bonnie Bitch

Post by Bonnie Bitch

Post by Saul_Sabia
wow. the comment was actually *supporting* you rather than tearing you
down.

Saul, babe, lay off the drugs. Then you'll be able to LIE better.

Had he stopped w/ just calling you a snob, I would agree. But, since
he went on and basically called himself a snob when it comes to wine
and beer, I would have to say it was supportive.

Of course, you're right, it would help if he'd quote the old test.

<snop>

-- Christian (aka Inky)

Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
World Vision (Darfur) -- http://donate.wvus.org/OA_HTML/xxwvibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=10025&item=1072182
ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

Saul_Sabia

2005-05-21 09:07:39 UTC

Permalink

Post by Christian M. Mericle

Post by Bonnie Bitch
Saul, babe, lay off the drugs. Then you'll be able to LIE better.

i use google groups. i am so spoiled now that i have forgotten what
it's like to not have the thread pre-ordered and organized for your
viewing pleasure. i will quote from hereon out.

if you are a working musician, you are probably better than 90% of what
you hear on the radio. if you make your own alcohol, you probably make
better alcohol than 90% of what you can buy at the store. as a result,
you tend to realize how crappy the music is on the radio, and how
crappy the alcohol is that you can buy at the store.

it's a great parallel, i think. am i calling bonnie elitist? well, yes.
bonnie comes off to me as very elitist. i can look past it, however,
because i am given to understand that she is a working musician, and as
such can probably play in more than two or three keys (unlike a lot of
what's on the radio). an elitist viewpoint is unavoidable.

the distinction i was trying to draw was that i've known self-styled
musicians (and a couple working musicians as well) who turn their nose
up at anything radio-played. i find that attitude to be snobbish, just
as i would any home brewer who cannot find any alcohol on the shelf
that just *might* be a little bit better than the stuff he makes at
home.

i admit to a bit of the elitist attitude, although in a different area
than bonnie's. and, frankly, to a point i find it valid, although i'm
still waiting to see how much of an elitist "i can do it better" she is
vs. how much of a condescending "it all sucks" bitchy _snob_ she is. if
at all, of course.

have i made myself clear? it's the process of trying to determine if
someone is real or just a caricature, so to speak. and the jury is
still out.

Saul

Bonnie Bitch

2005-05-21 10:02:47 UTC

Permalink

Post by Saul_Sabia

Post by Christian M. Mericle

Post by Bonnie Bitch
Saul, babe, lay off the drugs. Then you'll be able to LIE better.

i use google groups.

And copious amounts of smack, too.

Post by Saul_Sabia
i am so spoiled now that i have forgotten what
it's like to not have the thread pre-ordered and organized for your
viewing pleasure. i will quote from hereon out.

TYVM. Finally.

Post by Saul_Sabia
if you are a working musician, you are probably better than 90% of what
you hear on the radio.

Depends on what radio station being listened to.
So, most likely, I'm not better than Phillipe Entremont and Martha
Argerich and Carol Rosenberg. Or Marty Katz, David Garvey, and Judy
Stillman (who is a goddess, BTW).
OTOH, I blow John Tesh's ass out of the water by playing with my feet.

Post by Saul_Sabia
if you make your own alcohol, you probably make
better alcohol than 90% of what you can buy at the store. as a result,
you tend to realize how crappy the music is on the radio, and how
crappy the alcohol is that you can buy at the store.

OTOH, I can guarantee that my playing won't ill off my guests, unlike
your home brewed swill.

Post by Saul_Sabia
it's a great parallel, i think. am i calling bonnie elitist? well, yes.

FYVM.

Post by Saul_Sabia
bonnie comes off to me as very elitist. i can look past it, however,

FYVM again, and how white of you.

Post by Saul_Sabia
because i am given to understand that she is a working musician, and as
such can probably play in more than two or three keys (unlike a lot of
what's on the radio). an elitist viewpoint is unavoidable.

So, what you're telling me is that because I have chosen to be
educated, informed, and trained in and about my craft, I'm "elitist."
I'd adopt your standards in a heart beat, because that lack of
standards would be a fuck of a lot easier than spending how many
DECADES studying, practicing, learning, studying some more, practicing
even more, learning more, and then getting slammed by some dipshit
who's white enough to look past what in any other field would be
assets.
Do you run about telling accountants that they're elitists because
they went to school, and any asshole with a calculator can add?
Do you inform lawyers that they're elitist because they went to law
school and know about the law?
Oh,and keep in mind that lawyers and accountants don't have to prove
their proficiency in law and accounting BEFORE they're accepted into
law school and accounting studies. Musicians do. And what's more, we
have to keep proving it as we progress through our music studies.
So, pardonnez-moi for having an education in my chosen field, which
education and knowledge you see fit to criticize.

Post by Saul_Sabia
the distinction i was trying to draw was that i've known self-styled
musicians (and a couple working musicians as well) who turn their nose
up at anything radio-played. i find that attitude to be snobbish,

Sweetcheeks, you suck at backpedaling.

<snip blahblah>

Post by Saul_Sabia
i admit to a bit of the elitist attitude, although in a different area
than bonnie's. and, frankly, to a point i find it valid, although i'm
still waiting to see how much of an elitist "i can do it better" she is
vs. how much of a condescending "it all sucks" bitchy _snob_ she is. if
at all, of course.

Oh, I get it -- you're setting up one of those Catch 22 thingies. Ya
know -- damned if I do, damned if I don't.
Well, ok,then -- you've already pissed and moaned about elitist, so
what the fuck, right?
I am just as capable of playing Christian pageant shit/Chritsian
praise/worship crap as any pianist you'll ever hear on the radio.
And it's because of my experience playing classical (from Scarlatti
and Buxtehude to JS Bach to Mozart to Hindemith to Ibert to Poulenc to
musical theatre to Messiaen to Bernstein to Gershwin -- except for
that damned second prelude, because my hands are just too small) that
I can phrase, listen better, touch the keys so that it doesn't sound
like a herd of elephants all the time, know how music is put together
so that my music-making choices are informed, and have a concept of
what music is, so that when I approach a piece, I can <drum roll>
think about what I'm doing.
And I take this approach to every last note I play, whether it's
Brahms or Sunday morning bullshit.
You wanna call knowing exactly what I'm doing "elitist"? Fine, Go for
it. I welcome that, because it reveals more about you than about me.

Post by Saul_Sabia
have i made myself clear?

Did you join Scientology, because, babe, that's the only kind of clear
you'll ever get to.

Post by Saul_Sabia
it's the process of trying to determine if
someone is real or just a caricature, so to speak. and the jury is
still out.

Jury came back -- you were found guilty and wantonly assloafish.

Happy FOAD --

Bonnie Bitch

Rick

2005-05-21 16:27:48 UTC

Permalink

[snip]

Post by Bonnie Bitch
OTOH, I blow John Tesh's ass out of the water by playing with my feet.

Many people can do that playing with their navel.

[snip]

Post by Bonnie Bitch

But utterly pompous snobbery is...by most people.

Post by Bonnie Bitch
So, what you're telling me is that because I have chosen to be
educated, informed, and trained in and about my craft, I'm "elitist."

No, your elitism comes sinmply from your snobbery.

That might be likely if they're pompous snobs.

Post by Bonnie Bitch
Oh,and keep in mind that lawyers and accountants don't have to prove
their proficiency in law and accounting BEFORE they're accepted into
law school and accounting studies. Musicians do. And what's more, we
have to keep proving it as we progress through our music studies.
So, pardonnez-moi for having an education in my chosen field, which
education and knowledge you see fit to criticize.

Sweetcheeks, you suck at backpedaling.

Completely unnlike your complete mastery of knee-jerk pompous snobbery.

[snip]

Post by Bonnie Bitch
I am just as capable of playing Christian pageant shit/Chritsian
praise/worship crap as any pianist you'll ever hear on the radio.
And it's because of my experience playing classical (from Scarlatti
and Buxtehude to JS Bach to Mozart to Hindemith to Ibert to Poulenc to
musical theatre to Messiaen to Bernstein to Gershwin -- except for
that damned second prelude, because my hands are just too small) that
I can phrase, listen better, touch the keys so that it doesn't sound
like a herd of elephants all the time, know how music is put together
so that my music-making choices are informed, and have a concept of
what music is, so that when I approach a piece, I can <drum roll>
think about what I'm doing.
And I take this approach to every last note I play, whether it's
Brahms or Sunday morning bullshit.

You sound like the kind of person who could work at McDonalds or Burger King
and constantly brag to everyone you meet about how clearly you can
annunciate "Would you like fries with that?"

[snip]

You're just another Budikka sock clone, right?

- Rick

Bonnie B.

2005-05-22 06:17:55 UTC

Permalink

On Sat, 21 May 2005 11:27:48 -0500, "Rick"

Post by Rick
[snip]

Post by Bonnie Bitch
OTOH, I blow John Tesh's ass out of the water by playing with my feet.

Many people can do that playing with their navel.

Couldn't agree more, oddly enough.

Post by Rick
[snip]

Post by Bonnie Bitch

But utterly pompous snobbery is...by most people.

Then what's your excuse, Mr. I Hate Classical and You're a Whore For
Not Playing It?