Discussion:
Believers like to claim...
(too old to reply)
James
2005-05-03 21:17:13 UTC
Permalink
Believers like to claim that only believers should investigate God
because unbelievers are biased against Him. Yet, equally, a believer
cannot investigate God because they already accept that He exists.
God's existence must be examined from a scien-tific perspective which
demands skepticism, disbelief or at least sufficient doubt to be
effective. The Christian response is that God is not of this universe
and therefore he is not susceptible to scientific inquiry, but an
entirely transcendental God could have no effect on the universe and
might as well not exist.
Science investigates phenomena that manifest themselves in the real
world, and Christians claim God does manifest Himself in the real
world-He created it, appeared on earth in human form, wiggles His
index finger in history, and answers prayers. If God exists and does
all this, he must be observable through science. If believers say God
exists but every test applied is negative, why should we, or they,
believe He does? When God does not interact with the world on any
scientific criterion, how can anyone continue to believe He exists and
answers prayers? If He exists somewhere else and does not interact
with the world, then what is the use of praying? (God's Truth; Dr M D
Magee)
--
Bear
Bear,

Just for the record, true Christians do encourage non believers to
investigate God and His writings in the Bible. For example, Jesus'
command to his followers was to preach to ALL the nations, regardless
of what each person believed. Mt 28:19,20,

"19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in
the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and
teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am
with you always, to the very end of the age." (NIV)

And you may be surprised to know that the Bible itself tells us to
investigate religious teachings. For example, we can derive that
message from this Scripture at Ac 17:11,

"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians,
for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the
Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." (NIV)

And even to investigate the Bible itself. Pr 14:15,

"Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one
considers his steps." (NWT)

Also notice 1 Th 5:21,

"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." (KJV)

As far as proving the existence of God, His evidence is all around us.

If you walk into a Wal-Mart store and see all of those items on the
shelves, do you automatically assume that most of them were made by
blind chance over time, and that some Wal-Mart employee went out in
the field and just collected them? Of course not, for one thing they
have the 'mark' of human intelligence in their design.

It is similar with God and His creations. Such complex things such as
human beings show an intelligent 'mark' on its design. (at least to
many of us)

The Bible uses the example of a house. No house with various rooms and
windows etc, just popped into existence on its own. It clearly was
made by some intelligence. So the Bible says at He 3:4,

"For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is
God." (NASB)

So in conclusion, genuine Christians try to take the word of God to
all people, including unbelievers, and they encourage all to
investigate the Holy Bible. And we can see evidence of God by the
things He created. Ro 1:20,

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
(NIV)


Sincerely, James


***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
Radical aeasterbunnyist
2005-05-03 19:38:21 UTC
Permalink
The gates of free.christians slowly swung open, and there stood James
Post by James
It is similar with God and His creations. Such complex things such as
human beings show an intelligent 'mark' on its design. (at least to
many of us)
Only if you totally flunked science.

David Silverman F.L.A.H.N. aa #2208

Due to be prayed for by Gastrich 11.3.2011
Bible Bob
2005-05-04 03:37:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Believers like to claim that only believers should investigate God
because unbelievers are biased against Him. Yet, equally, a believer
cannot investigate God because they already accept that He exists.
God's existence must be examined from a scien-tific perspective which
demands skepticism, disbelief or at least sufficient doubt to be
effective. The Christian response is that God is not of this universe
and therefore he is not susceptible to scientific inquiry, but an
entirely transcendental God could have no effect on the universe and
might as well not exist.
Science investigates phenomena that manifest themselves in the real
world, and Christians claim God does manifest Himself in the real
world-He created it, appeared on earth in human form, wiggles His
index finger in history, and answers prayers. If God exists and does
all this, he must be observable through science. If believers say God
exists but every test applied is negative, why should we, or they,
believe He does? When God does not interact with the world on any
scientific criterion, how can anyone continue to believe He exists and
answers prayers? If He exists somewhere else and does not interact
with the world, then what is the use of praying? (God's Truth; Dr M D
Magee)
--
Bear
Bear,
Just for the record, true Christians do encourage non believers to
investigate God and His writings in the Bible. For example, Jesus'
command to his followers was to preach to ALL the nations, regardless
of what each person believed. Mt 28:19,20,
"19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in
the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and
teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am
with you always, to the very end of the age." (NIV)
And you may be surprised to know that the Bible itself tells us to
investigate religious teachings. For example, we can derive that
message from this Scripture at Ac 17:11,
"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians,
for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the
Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." (NIV)
And even to investigate the Bible itself. Pr 14:15,
"Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one
considers his steps." (NWT)
Also notice 1 Th 5:21,
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." (KJV)
As far as proving the existence of God, His evidence is all around us.
If you walk into a Wal-Mart store and see all of those items on the
shelves, do you automatically assume that most of them were made by
blind chance over time, and that some Wal-Mart employee went out in
the field and just collected them? Of course not, for one thing they
have the 'mark' of human intelligence in their design.
It is similar with God and His creations. Such complex things such as
human beings show an intelligent 'mark' on its design. (at least to
many of us)
The Bible uses the example of a house. No house with various rooms and
windows etc, just popped into existence on its own. It clearly was
made by some intelligence. So the Bible says at He 3:4,
"For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is
God." (NASB)
So in conclusion, genuine Christians try to take the word of God to
all people, including unbelievers, and they encourage all to
investigate the Holy Bible. And we can see evidence of God by the
things He created. Ro 1:20,
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
(NIV)
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
Bear,

The reason that science can not see is because:

Ephesians 4:17-18 KJV
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth
walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life
of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness
of their heart:

God judged science, science is unable to judge God because they can
not see Him to catch, jail, and try Him.



Non-commercial website where everything is free.
http://www.biblebob.net

BB
Bear
2005-05-04 03:57:31 UTC
Permalink
"Bible Bob" wrote
: James wrote:
: >> Machque wrote:
: >
: >> Believers like to claim that only believers should investigate God
: >> because unbelievers are biased against Him. Yet, equally, a believer
: >> cannot investigate God because they already accept that He exists.
: >> God's existence must be examined from a scien-tific perspective which
: >> demands skepticism, disbelief or at least sufficient doubt to be
: >> effective. The Christian response is that God is not of this universe
: >> and therefore he is not susceptible to scientific inquiry, but an
: >> entirely transcendental God could have no effect on the universe and
: >> might as well not exist.
: >>
: >> Science investigates phenomena that manifest themselves in the real
: >> world, and Christians claim God does manifest Himself in the real
: >> world-He created it, appeared on earth in human form, wiggles His
: >> index finger in history, and answers prayers. If God exists and does
: >> all this, he must be observable through science. If believers say God
: >> exists but every test applied is negative, why should we, or they,
: >> believe He does? When God does not interact with the world on any
: >> scientific criterion, how can anyone continue to believe He exists and
: >> answers prayers? If He exists somewhere else and does not interact
: >> with the world, then what is the use of praying? (God's Truth; Dr M D
: >> Magee)
: >>
: >> --
: >> Bear
: >
: >Bear,
: >
: >Just for the record, true Christians do encourage non believers to
: >investigate God and His writings in the Bible. For example, Jesus'
: >command to his followers was to preach to ALL the nations, regardless
: >of what each person believed. Mt 28:19,20,
: >
: >"19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in
: >the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and
: >teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am
: >with you always, to the very end of the age." (NIV)
: >
: >And you may be surprised to know that the Bible itself tells us to
: >investigate religious teachings. For example, we can derive that
: >message from this Scripture at Ac 17:11,
: >
: >"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians,
: >for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the
: >Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." (NIV)
: >
: >And even to investigate the Bible itself. Pr 14:15,
: >
: >"Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one
: >considers his steps." (NWT)
: >
: >Also notice 1 Th 5:21,
: >
: >"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." (KJV)
: >
: >As far as proving the existence of God, His evidence is all around us.
: >
: >If you walk into a Wal-Mart store and see all of those items on the
: >shelves, do you automatically assume that most of them were made by
: >blind chance over time, and that some Wal-Mart employee went out in
: >the field and just collected them? Of course not, for one thing they
: >have the 'mark' of human intelligence in their design.
: >
: >It is similar with God and His creations. Such complex things such as
: >human beings show an intelligent 'mark' on its design. (at least to
: >many of us)
: >
: >The Bible uses the example of a house. No house with various rooms and
: >windows etc, just popped into existence on its own. It clearly was
: >made by some intelligence. So the Bible says at He 3:4,
: >
: >"For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is
: >God." (NASB)
: >
: >So in conclusion, genuine Christians try to take the word of God to
: >all people, including unbelievers, and they encourage all to
: >investigate the Holy Bible. And we can see evidence of God by the
: >things He created. Ro 1:20,
: >
: >"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
: >eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
: >understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
: >(NIV)
: >
: >
: >Sincerely, James
: >
: >
: >***********************************
: >Want a FREE home Bible study?
: >Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
: >Go to the authorized source:
: >http://www.watchtower.org
: >***********************************
: >
: >
: Bear,
:
: The reason that science can not see is because:
:
: Ephesians 4:17-18 KJV
: 17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth
: walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
: 18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life
: of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness
: of their heart:

Sounds like a theist excuse to me

: God judged science, science is unable to judge God because they can
: not see Him to catch, jail, and try Him.

Because he is a figment of the theists' minds.
--
Bear

And I know it’s my own damn fault.
Dean
2005-05-11 23:47:25 UTC
Permalink
Hello Bear you are all over the place too. Too much time on your hands just
like me. Keep on looking at these religion NG and one day you will be a
Christian. Also you need to read the Bible but you already do.
Post by Bear
: >
: >> Believers like to claim that only believers should investigate God
: >> because unbelievers are biased against Him. Yet, equally, a believer
: >> cannot investigate God because they already accept that He exists.
: >> God's existence must be examined from a scien-tific perspective which
: >> demands skepticism, disbelief or at least sufficient doubt to be
: >> effective. The Christian response is that God is not of this universe
: >> and therefore he is not susceptible to scientific inquiry, but an
: >> entirely transcendental God could have no effect on the universe and
: >> might as well not exist.
: >>
: >> Science investigates phenomena that manifest themselves in the real
: >> world, and Christians claim God does manifest Himself in the real
: >> world-He created it, appeared on earth in human form, wiggles His
: >> index finger in history, and answers prayers. If God exists and does
: >> all this, he must be observable through science. If believers say God
: >> exists but every test applied is negative, why should we, or they,
: >> believe He does? When God does not interact with the world on any
: >> scientific criterion, how can anyone continue to believe He exists and
: >> answers prayers? If He exists somewhere else and does not interact
: >> with the world, then what is the use of praying? (God's Truth; Dr M D
: >> Magee)
: >>
: >> --
: >> Bear
: >
: >Bear,
: >
: >Just for the record, true Christians do encourage non believers to
: >investigate God and His writings in the Bible. For example, Jesus'
: >command to his followers was to preach to ALL the nations, regardless
: >of what each person believed. Mt 28:19,20,
: >
: >"19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in
: >the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and
: >teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am
: >with you always, to the very end of the age." (NIV)
: >
: >And you may be surprised to know that the Bible itself tells us to
: >investigate religious teachings. For example, we can derive that
: >message from this Scripture at Ac 17:11,
: >
: >"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians,
: >for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the
: >Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." (NIV)
: >
: >And even to investigate the Bible itself. Pr 14:15,
: >
: >"Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one
: >considers his steps." (NWT)
: >
: >Also notice 1 Th 5:21,
: >
: >"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." (KJV)
: >
: >As far as proving the existence of God, His evidence is all around us.
: >
: >If you walk into a Wal-Mart store and see all of those items on the
: >shelves, do you automatically assume that most of them were made by
: >blind chance over time, and that some Wal-Mart employee went out in
: >the field and just collected them? Of course not, for one thing they
: >have the 'mark' of human intelligence in their design.
: >
: >It is similar with God and His creations. Such complex things such as
: >human beings show an intelligent 'mark' on its design. (at least to
: >many of us)
: >
: >The Bible uses the example of a house. No house with various rooms and
: >windows etc, just popped into existence on its own. It clearly was
: >made by some intelligence. So the Bible says at He 3:4,
: >
: >"For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is
: >God." (NASB)
: >
: >So in conclusion, genuine Christians try to take the word of God to
: >all people, including unbelievers, and they encourage all to
: >investigate the Holy Bible. And we can see evidence of God by the
: >things He created. Ro 1:20,
: >
: >"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
: >eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
: >understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
: >(NIV)
: >
: >
: >Sincerely, James
: >
: >
: >***********************************
: >Want a FREE home Bible study?
: >Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
: >http://www.watchtower.org
: >***********************************
: >
: >
: Bear,
: Ephesians 4:17-18 KJV
: 17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth
: walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
: 18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life
: of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness
Sounds like a theist excuse to me
: God judged science, science is unable to judge God because they can
: not see Him to catch, jail, and try Him.
Because he is a figment of the theists' minds.
--
Bear
And I know it's my own damn fault.
Carson West
2005-05-13 04:58:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dean
Hello Bear you are all over the place too. Too much time
on your hands just like me. Keep on looking at these
religion NG and one day you will be a Christian.
Actually, I find that the more people read the religious newsgroups, and if
they do much thinking at all, the less likely they are to convert. That's
a good thing.

[Snip]
Bear
2005-05-13 05:10:46 UTC
Permalink
"Dean" wrote
: Hello Bear you are all over the place too. Too much time on your hands
just
: like me. Keep on looking at these religion NG and one day you will be a
: Christian. Also you need to read the Bible but you already do.

I already made the mistake of being a Christian. I won't repeat that
mistake. Yes, I know the Bible pretty well. That's why I can't believe it.
--
Bear
a/a #1422

And I know it’s my own damn fault.
Dean
2005-05-13 20:40:26 UTC
Permalink
The Israelites crossed the Red Sea left Egypt and none returned back to
Egypt. Turning back is no option. He still waiting for you.
Post by Bear
: Hello Bear you are all over the place too. Too much time on your hands
just
: like me. Keep on looking at these religion NG and one day you will be a
: Christian. Also you need to read the Bible but you already do.
I already made the mistake of being a Christian. I won't repeat that
mistake. Yes, I know the Bible pretty well. That's why I can't believe it.
--
Bear
a/a #1422
And I know it's my own damn fault.
Bear
2005-05-13 20:50:57 UTC
Permalink
"Dean" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Dean" wrote
: > : Hello Bear you are all over the place too. Too much time on your
hands
: > just
: > : like me. Keep on looking at these religion NG and one day you will be
a
: > : Christian. Also you need to read the Bible but you already do.
: >
: > I already made the mistake of being a Christian. I won't repeat that
: > mistake. Yes, I know the Bible pretty well. That's why I can't believe
it.
: >
: The Israelites crossed the Red Sea left Egypt and none returned back to
: Egypt. Turning back is no option. He still waiting for you.

"He" does not exist. Therefore, "He" is not waiting for me.
--
Bear
a/a #1422

And I know it’s my own damn fault.
Thore "Tocis" Schmechtig
2005-05-04 06:11:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Just for the record, true Christians do encourage non believers to
investigate God and His writings in the Bible.
Just for the record, there is no such thing as a "True Christian" - or
rather, there's as many definitions of that as there are denominations.

The only definition known to me that both makes sense and encompasses
everyone of all those believers is "A Christian is one who believes in
Jesus Christ as the Savior".
Of course, by that definition, many people who belong to the most disgusting
scum of humankind, like Hitler for example, are/were christians too... an
obvious reason for "christians" to invent all manner of different
definitions to conveniently exclude such persons.
And, just to refer to some currently living persons, the hatemongers of
www.godhatesfags.com and www.tencommandments.org are also (true? ;) )
christians by the reasonable definition I stated. Think about that.
Post by James
And you may be surprised to know that the Bible itself tells us to
investigate religious teachings.
So what? Other verses in the bible command the believer to keep his hands
off other faiths. I won't even mention, here and now, the OT commandments
to kill all unbelievers.
The mere fact that you can state a verse supporting your agenda doesn't mean
anything unless no one can state another verse saying the opposite.
Post by James
If you walk into a Wal-Mart store and see all of those items on the
shelves, do you automatically assume that most of them were made by
blind chance over time, and that some Wal-Mart employee went out in
the field and just collected them? Of course not, for one thing they
have the 'mark' of human intelligence in their design.
Typical fallacious anti-science argument. You present "examples" that aren't
alive, have never been alive, and there's no plausible scientific
explanation for their current form either - and thus _of course_ they can't
have come into being by something else than design (by humans, in this
case).
I could just as well claim "As you obviously can't break down Granite with a
pencil, Granite is proven to be absolutely indestructible".
Post by James
It is similar with God and His creations. Such complex things such as
human beings show an intelligent 'mark' on its design. (at least to
many of us)
And how do you think can we tell design from non-design then? According to
christian doctrine, your idol created _everything,_ so wherever we look, we
see design. According to your doctrine we _can't_ know how "non-design"
looks like because we never saw it.
Post by James
So in conclusion, genuine Christians try to take the word of God to
all people, including unbelievers, and they encourage all to
investigate the Holy Bible.
Self-proclaimed "genuine christians" have force-converted unbelievers a la
"turn or burn!" because they had no good arguments to peacefully make them
into christians, they have burned tens of thousands of "witches" and other
"heretics" at the stake, et cetera ad nauseam. Wanna bet that, if we could
talk to the perpetrators right now, they could easily quote the bible
verses that "command every christian to do that"?
Post by James
And we can see evidence of God by the
things He created. Ro 1:20,
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
(NIV)
Jep, that's perfect proof that everything was created by... ALLAH.
What you "True Christians(TM)" never learn is that you arrive at your
"logical conclusions" only by excluding pretty much everything right from
the start which isn't compatible to what you desire to prove.

By the way, this ludicrous desire to "prove your idol" is in and of itself a
sign of weakness of your faith. If your faith was really that strong, you
WOULDN'T NEED ANY PROOF. And if the bible really was such an obviously
Divinely-inspired work then you wouldn't need to show "proof" to the
unbelievers either to hopefully convert them.

You are a weakling. Face it.
--
Regards

Thore "Tocis" Schmechtig
n***@snet.net
2005-05-12 16:44:23 UTC
Permalink
James wrote:

[snip]
Post by James
If you walk into a Wal-Mart store and see all of those items on the
shelves, do you automatically assume that most of them were made by
blind chance over time, and that some Wal-Mart employee went out in
the field and just collected them? Of course not, for one thing they
have the 'mark' of human intelligence in their design.
It is similar with God and His creations. Such complex things such as
human beings show an intelligent 'mark' on its design. (at least to
many of us)
Those items on the Wal-Mart shelves exist because complex humans made
them. Humans exist because (supposedly) a more complex being called
God made them. This begs the question of how could something so
complex as God just exist. Who made God? Then who made who made God,
etc.
Post by James
The Bible uses the example of a house. No house with various rooms and
windows etc, just popped into existence on its own. It clearly was
made by some intelligence. So the Bible says at He 3:4,
"For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is
God." (NASB)
So in conclusion, genuine Christians try to take the word of God to
all people, including unbelievers, and they encourage all to
investigate the Holy Bible. And we can see evidence of God by the
things He created. Ro 1:20,
What do you do when a genuine Muslim tries to take the word of Allah to
you and they encourge you to investigate the Holy Koran?
Post by James
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
(NIV)
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
Mike Painter
2005-05-12 23:08:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@snet.net
[snip]
Post by James
If you walk into a Wal-Mart store and see all of those items on the
shelves, do you automatically assume that most of them were made by
blind chance over time, and that some Wal-Mart employee went out in
the field and just collected them? Of course not, for one thing they
have the 'mark' of human intelligence in their design.
It is similar with God and His creations. Such complex things such as
human beings show an intelligent 'mark' on its design. (at least to
many of us)
Those items on the Wal-Mart shelves exist because complex humans made
them. Humans exist because (supposedly) a more complex being called
God made them. This begs the question of how could something so
complex as God just exist. Who made God? Then who made who made God,
etc.
If you examine those items you will see that they are designed to perform a
particular function.
If for example you came across a gas lawn mower you might think it a good
idea.
If the gas filler cap was located in the same hole the air intake was you
might think the designer was not very intelligent.

If the human body was designed it has myriad stupid features and the
designer, at best, would have been a C average student at a trade school.
In fact if you compared skin, which is *very* good to most of the rest of
the design you would say the designer stole the idea.
Your Name Here=Harvey
2005-05-13 08:09:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@snet.net
[snip]
Post by James
If you walk into a Wal-Mart store and see all of those items on the
shelves, do you automatically assume that most of them were made by
blind chance over time, and that some Wal-Mart employee went out in
the field and just collected them? Of course not, for one thing they
have the 'mark' of human intelligence in their design.
It is similar with God and His creations. Such complex things such as
human beings show an intelligent 'mark' on its design. (at least to
many of us)
Those items on the Wal-Mart shelves exist because complex humans made
them. Humans exist because (supposedly) a more complex being called
God made them. This begs the question of how could something so
complex as God just exist. Who made God? Then who made who made God,
etc.
Post by James
The Bible uses the example of a house. No house with various rooms
and
Post by James
windows etc, just popped into existence on its own. It clearly was
made by some intelligence. So the Bible says at He 3:4,
"For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things
is
Post by James
God." (NASB)
So in conclusion, genuine Christians try to take the word of God to
all people, including unbelievers, and they encourage all to
investigate the Holy Bible. And we can see evidence of God by the
things He created. Ro 1:20,
What do you do when a genuine Muslim tries to take the word of Allah to
you and they encourge you to investigate the Holy Koran?
Post by James
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his
eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
(NIV)
Sincerely, James
***********************************
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http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
Analogies work to a certain degree. The analogy is still not
a truth in itself.

A variation you may not be aware of - is that you can dispose of God,
and there is only 'the creation' itself, which is self perpetuating.
That the God of the Jews, Christians and Muslims, simply does not
exist - it was all made up, purposefully to manipulate the masses.

A different view of the life of Jesus, is the Talmud Jmmanuel text.
Where Jesus'/Jmmanuel original teachings remain intact in that text.
There is no reference to God here, but only to the Creation.

Watchtower is an example of just another variation of Christianity,
like others created in the same time frame - who sprout forth their
own version, without proof or evidence that what they are teaching/
indoctrinating people into, has any truth to it at all.
Isn't it strange how they manipulate the Bible, into their own
version, that others don't agree to.
Instead of uniting people, they are splitting them apart.

Harvey
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