Discussion:
Salmon Summary
(too old to reply)
David Dalton
2013-02-22 05:42:27 UTC
Permalink
Tonight I edited the Summary of key features of my cycles,
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/summary.html
(which is a subpage of my Salmon on the Thorns page
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html ).

In case you don't like to click on links, I will
paste the text from that Summary into a followup
to this post.

Let me know if you know of any past religious
figures or mythological or folklore characters who
also had some of these features.
--
David Dalton ***@nfld.com http://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/nf.html Newfoundland&Labrador Travel & Music
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)
"Here I go again...back into the flame" (Sarah McLachlan)
David Dalton
2013-02-22 05:52:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Dalton
Tonight I edited the Summary of key features of my cycles,
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/summary.html
(which is a subpage of my Salmon on the Thorns page
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html ).
In case you don't like to click on links, I will
paste the text from that Summary into a followup
to this post.
Let me know if you know of any past religious
figures or mythological or folklore characters who
also had some of these features.
Summary of key features of my cycles

Here are some key features of my cycles:

1. a naked sun stare/thorn hill climb/blue rose vision two days
before new moon, in early Sept., 1991 at age 27.5. In the sun stare
there was a tunneling beyond the sun, I think into higher dimensions,
followed by a descent of giant "butterfly wings" on me, which I think
may have augmented my form in higher dimensions. I liken this experience
to Jesus's baptism when the heavens opened and wings descended on him.

2. three more waning crescent highs each preceded 5.5 lunar months
before by onset of a waxing gibbous moon trial, and one more high
without such a precursor, all in 1993--1994 (plus another waxing gibbous
moon trial in May 1992 that was extended slightly past full moon by
marijuana use, which I now avoid, plus I avoid alcohol 1--9 days before
full moon and that has prevented severe waxing gibbous moon problems
after mid-July 1997).

3. two early waxing moon trials in early Jan., early Apr., 1995, not
as bad as the waxing gibbous moon ones of 1992 to 1994 though. These
early waxing moon trials were like a waning crescent high turning sour
after new moon but without the waning crescent high.

4. mystic "live" sparks as opposed to dead normal static ones

5. low/wilderness/ascetic/foresaken/cremation ground years beginning
in late January 1996 and not over yet but which I postulate lasted 7
years for past figures but longer for me since I have had access to
medication and also lifespans are longer on average these days. During
the first two years this involved a fairly constant low level of
delusion, paranoia, magical conspiracy theories, and isolationism with
stronger flare-ups during Jan96, May96, Jun96 and Jul97 waxing gibbous
moons. This mostly subsided when my lithium was increased back to a
level of 0.8 in July 1997 and I also again gave up drinking 1--9 days
before full moon. But I continued to believe perineum area muscle click
divination and that led to the mildly delusional eyebrow matchmaking
theory (but no paranoia), and after I gave up on that in early May 1999
(based on negative evidence and lack of evidence) I resolved to no
longer believe perineum area muscle click divination (but I still play
at it some). The celtic section and buddhist section of the parallels
subpage have a bit more on seven years stuff and I have some more
related native and shamanic links which are in the links section.

6. each high had an M class solar flare a few days before onset plus
I had a depression in 1986 during the low of the sunspot cycle and my
low years began in early 1996 not long before the low of the sunspot
cycle, and hence I postulated an 11 year cycle in my mood, but I now
think this is not the case. Feb. 21, 2013: I am still not out of the low
years after 17.06 years, and it could be that I will have to wait until
22 [11+11] years after my first high, so September 2013, or 18 [7+11]
years after the low years started, so late January 2014. But I hope the
low years will end sooner.

7. academic star including in religion as a child and teen (but I
have not studied religion formally since the world religions course in
the final year of my Catholic Roncalli high school, in Avondale,
educaton) and since in science (but I am not a carpenter [or engineer]).
I am not a religious studies specialist and have done no academic
courses in religious studies since my last year of high school, and my
best subject is mathematics. I was in school and university a total of
28 years, primarily focused on science since high school.

8. inspired, including musically, by a devi type (Sarah McLachlan,
singer/songwriter, head of Lilith Fair, of Vancouver, Canada). Devi and
avatar are Hindu terms but I am not Hindu so I add the word type, and I
as avatar type do not want to be worshipped and probably Sarah as devi
type does not want to be worshipped. Devi is a female term and deva is a
male term which is confusing since in English diva is a female term. The
similar devi type for Krishna as avatar type was Radha. But they were
involved, and though Sarah is my main musical inspirer she is far away
and not involved with me, so I have allowed my romantic thoughts to
stray to other women more easily than if I had any chance with her.

9. shaktipat (proximity induced kundalini awakening) from a holy
figure, in my case Iyengar yoga teacher Gioia Irwin, in Jesus's case
perhaps John the Baptist

10. clear sky lightning inspiration (related to seraphim; also
coincidentally Harry Potter has a lightning scar and is an orphan like
me but is much younger and has glasses like me though on my web page
pictures I may have contacts on or have taken my glasses off as I did
before my sun stare); also one case of extremely variable weather
including extremely high winds on one day inspiration (related to
cherubim)

11. very bad eyesight, now -11 diopters in my left eye and -10
diopters in my right eye, plus astigmatism

12. born premature during a storm but put in an incubator rather
than into a box containing wool or hay. I am a seventh surviving child,
but the eight pregnancy of which one was of two fraternal twins and one
was a miscarriage and another was a set of fraternal twins who died
shortly after birth.

13. stigmata spots at the beginning of 1995

14. A merging with something sublime, or it at least made me feel
sublime, and then snapping back into myself (for a while I called this
samadhi but I think samadhi is usually attained by meditation). The
merging occurred as a sensation of me slipping upwards partly outside of
my body and merging with the something sublime. Then after a short time
I snapped back into my body. I was standing the entire time.

15. skullcap pressure sensation, at The Edge bar, which is now
closed

16. "buddha" belly circles (one smaller, one larger, not at same
time, smaller one lasted much longer)

17. invisible turban winding/unwinding sensations

18. sensible (but not solid, sensible by chi hand warming and
tingling in the region) invisible sphere a ways above my head varying in
height and diameter for a while

19. invisible head circlet with thorn/spark sensation at the
centre, so a crown of thorn I guess, but at the top of the head not
around the third eye level.

20. invisible forehead tendrils and invisible bum pokes causing
insomnia beginning in Fall 1998 and lasting a few months but going away
when I started olanzapine so if I had not that may have lasted longer

21. have learned to not drink 1.0 to 9.0 days before the exact time
of full moon, by unfortunately having 8 strong mixed/psychotic waxing
gibbous moon trials from 1992 to 1997 that were alcohol (or once
marijuana) triggered or greatly worsened. Since July 1997 I have often
drunk a lot during waning moon but this has not triggered such reality
distortion/world gone sour symptoms or worsened my state when I was
already having problems and in fact I have sometimes posted more lucidly
after drinking. 2012: I now usually limit myself to 2 pints twice a week.

22. much supposed perineum (the region between but not including
the anus and the genitals) area muscle click divination and such click
(short period mula-bandha?) as closure (it is a silent click, or muscle
jerk, not an audible click). The click is a alight contraction of the
perineum area muscles combined simultaneously with a moving together of
my upper thigh muscles. I think the perineum area is the base chakra but
others say the base chakra is at the base of the tailbone, or sacrum
area.

23. involuntarily celibate, except for masturbation, from spring
1986 to now; had four poor sexual experiences with four women in 1984
and 1986, have speculated that I am compatible only with bisexual by
nature women and those four women were not bisexual, or that alcohol
inhibited my response. But there are some women that I am attracted to
at a distance much more than other women, and I have speculated that
they are bisexual by nature (are attracted regularly and significantly
to both genders) but I have only a little evidence for that yet so I
have to assume that they might not be bisexual. I have also theorized
that I am most attracted to bisexual by nature (who can be bisexual,
lesbian, straight or celibate by lifestyle) women who have had a fair
number of orgasms for their age, including some recently, and am not
much attracted to bisexual by nature women who have had no orgasms. If
my four orientation theory is incorrect then you can remove the words
bisexual by nature in the last sentence.

24. not a cult leader type, I do not want followers (of me or
anyone) but want people to think for themselves but that can include
recognizing good stuff and echoing it within themselves but not always
blindly following everything by the same person. For example I might
recognize that some of Stephen Hawking's mathematical physics is correct
within current error bars but that does not make me a follower of
Stephen Hawking, i.e. I would check the math in each of his statements,
but he would have cracked open the light, or been the teacher, so to
speak, in instances where I do verify his statements.

25. have experienced various uplifting coincidences including signs
from other species, funny number (especially 55, which is LV in Roman
numerals) coincidences, and stumbling sometimes by random page choice
(e.g. thumbing) on very significant information in books.

26. significant messages for someones as far as I know of and can
communicate with, in this case at least the human species on this planet
and in near space, and of those some new component, not just the same
old same old since then there would be no need for a Messenger/focus of
rapid (on historical time scales) change.

27. significant breakthrough(s) in lore -- for me one such
breakthrough is my showing that some past pagan and non-pagan major
religious figures including Jesus were similar to one another and were
similar to me, and I will continue to gather backing evidence for that.
Another such breakthrough if it is true would be my four orientation
theory (that there is a fourth orientation compatible only with
bisexuals by nature of the other gender) and I hope to research whether
it is true or not, and if not if at least the statement that compatible
relationships result in longer lifespans than incompatible relationships
is true. Aside from that I have brainstormed numerous scientific and
entrepreneurial ideas (along with some word play physics clues) since
and including 1991. And also I have come up with some personal mystical
working theories which I will continue to develop and perhaps relate to
science. Also I have through checking solar cycle data shown that the
initial waning crescent high and subsequent waning crescent highs come
during high to medium years of the 11 year solar cycle and that most if
not all of the highs are preceded two or three days before by an M class
solar flare. Also I theorize that the clear sky lightning at the onset
of some of the highs is a result of interaction of said solar flare with
the ionosphere.

28. is oppressed and/or ridiculed and/or disbelieved and/or ignored
and/or labelled a lunatic some before being accepted but sometimes a bit
for good reason since there may be last minute breakthroughs in the
drunken weave Home.

29. Have tried healing of quite a few others and it remains to be
determined whether that has had any effect beyond my own subjective
perception of having brought some people out of mild depression. Since
this is not much dependent on the perineum area muscle click except for
closure sometimes I trust it a bit more than my matchmaking and related
blind following of the click divination. 2012: I have had little luck
doing healing yet, except perhaps some effect on mental illness
including depression, but I hope that healing components I developed
will become available to those with healer special ability.

30. Have TRIED to pass on my higher dimensional connections and
healing and some other abilities to many others. 2012: more recently I
have tried assisted shaktipat affecting ordained BSSes (bipolars,
schizoaffectives, and schizophrenics) and some others but it hasn't
worked yet, but I expect it might after I come out of the low years.

31. I think I can do musical boosting of musicians on stage and
venue "charging", subjectively to my ears and my feeling within the
venue, including sensing of the air, but this remains to be confirmed
objectively by others

32. at several stages I have had what I call twiddles, like slight
sensations at various points on my body, I sometimes call them question
mark hooks, which then need to be cleared. Sometimes they can be cleared
by a simple base chakra area muscle click. More often lately (though
they have slacked off now, which is good since they are annoying) I have
to clear them by visualizing myself as a subset of all/everything and
puffing out my consciousness a bit (so loose focus and puffing out) and
ending in perineum area muscle click closure and often a kundalini buzz.
Sometimes though I am seemingly posed a mathematical problem and have to
visualize the solution to get closure. (These have faded a great deal as
of May 13, 2004, and have been gone since I went back on olanzapine in
early 2005.)

33. for I think a couple of years now (I'll dig out the date later)
I have experienced what I call kundalini buzzes or shakti buzzes
(internal river rushes of fire, not much if any actually auditory) which
began when they occurred when I was fantasizing about kissing a woman
(not always on the lips). This later was extended to supposed formation
of shakti asociation between woman and one of my deities by my also
thinking of said deity just before and during the imagined kiss (almost
invariably lips) and buzz. Now while I have not much researched the
Hindu term shakti, one tantric site (will insert URL later) said that it
is the bridge between the human and the divine, and I saw that long
after I started using the term. Also in Hinduism some women are said to
be incarnations of Shakti I think but that is not the same as say the
shakti association between Sarah McLachlan and Gaia in my personal
mystical working theory formulation.

34. I do not have significant voices in my head, none of my
messages including extinction reel are derived from voices in my head.
However when I strain to get through to someone remotely I sometimes get
low level almost subliminal but I think fake voices back at times, and
likewise if I have been up very late streaming/babbling ideas (I guess
some meditation would prevent me from overdoing that) I also get such
very low level voices at times but they do not have significant content
and I consider them fake/spurious and anyway do not get them very much,
so my past psychiatrist considers me bipolar type I instead of
schizoaffective. However it could be that past figures similar to me
without medication may have had slightly more of that but I still do not
think they would have gotten significant messages that way, and no doubt
laboured over time to come up with their messages after some inspiration
and a fair bit of trial and error and constraining, and perhaps some in
the way described on extinction reel. And my past psychiatrist has told
me even completely normal people can get such low level occasional
spurious voices at times if they strain. 2012/2013: not much of such low
level internal voices lately.

35. I am by nature a night person though I can get up early but do
only if I have to. 2012: I now have high speed Internet, and often post
late but haven't been doing any all-nighters.

36. I had four bad right knee injuries from summer 1978 to early
1981 (plus a slight wrench in fall 1985) that might have left me lame
were it not for modern medicine.

37. in summer 1982 at the age of 18 I had my appendix out (the pain
started in one incident in math class earlier and there were two later
incidents, so it was a brewing appendix, and on the third I had it out,
but since all the tests for appendix proved inconclusive and there was
no hardness on the right side of my tummy and there was pain on both
sides on my tummy they cut me up the middle but it did turn out to be my
appendix). The pain of the incidents and after the operation was great,
as was a strange rash I had the year before, but both were less intense
in pain than my naked thorn hill climb.

38. years ago (actually maybe on and off as long as two years
though maybe less, but it has picked up in the last week) I have done a
lot of hair twirling though my hair is relatively short so I do not have
dreadlocks. But it reminds me of the hair of an African figure
(doll/bust) I saw in a shop window once, not just of dreadlocks. 2012:
none of that in years, and little pacing and checking.

39. I am into word play though the risk of that is that it can be
misinterpreted when I leave it vague/unexplained to test/challenge the
reader. I did more of that at UBC on the FTE mailing list.

40. I have a huge number of muses (influences) including many
singer/songwriters and other musicians and some poets and other writers
and some scientists and some activists and certainly many past religious
figures though I need to read more into such, I have dabbled a bit at
reading their bio notes but not as much at reading their messages
(except for Jesus more since I was educated as a Catholic, though I am
now ex-Catholic but still Jesus influenced) and poetry (except a bit of
Taliesin and Turquoise Bee and some of Mohammed's stuff is poetry) so
far.

41. Five years before my 1991 sun stare, in 1986, the year I had a
long term low level depression, there was a gathering of a global scale
(of people from around the world celebrating culture and science and
more), Expo 86, in Vancouver. Vancouver, where I was from Sept. 1, 1985
to Dec. 14, 1995, is 4504 miles (7200 km, so more than the radius of the
earth even to the outer atmosphere I think) from St. John's,
Newfoundland where I am now (and I grew up in Newfoundland). My longest
distance (in terms of separation between me and the woman or women I was
fantasizing about) and best orgasm was the night before new moon on Jan.
29, 1995, when I was in Vancouver and the two women I was fantasizing
about (with self touch) were in New Zealand. For a while I thought this
occurred in early December, 1994 but my e-mail files point to Jan. 29,
1995. Sarah McLachlan was one of those two women and has toured to many
places on the globe and visited some others (e.g. Cambodia and India)
that she has not yet played concert gigs at, as far as I know. Also my
writing has gone out not just on this World Wide Web web page but also
on e-mail mailing lists, web forums, and in over 10,000 posts since and
including 1991 to Usenet newsgroups distributed worldwide on the
Internet, and many of those posts went to more than one group (were
crossposts). Also I have shaken hands of people from many countries and
many religions when playing badminton, and have heard live musicians
from many countries, including Babatunde Olatunji when he was alive (I
heard him at the Kitsilano Neighbourhood House folk festival in
Vancouver).

42. Since the fall of 2003 I have had no trouble drinking from
bottles or with a straw but in drinking from beer cans or water glasses
or pint glasses or beer mugs I have had some trouble with my tongue not
lying flat and not retracting and it takes more effort than it should to
drink without spilling some over my shirt. I do not know if that is
significant but it is an unusual change. My past psychiatrist suspects
that it may be due to tardive dyskinesia brought on by haloperidol use
on occasion starting in 1991. Thus I am now avoiding haloperidol, if I
need extra meds I will take extra olanzapine. If this drinking problem
does not improve, my psychiatrist may refer me to a neurologist. (He did
and the neurologist found nothing plus I was unable to do the behaviour
while with the neurologist.) It is a problem of jaw and lips and tongue
and has since extended some to eating as well as drinking. I think is is
a tardive oromandibular dystonia but my past psychiatrist isn't sure
about that. (I will see another neurologist on July 26, 2013.)

43. Years ago I occasionally had the experience of someone else
looking through my eyes. Then I would raise my glasses to show them that
I have bad eyesight and they would go away. At no time did they try to
control me. I call those entities glasses someones.

44. One night I think in 1997 when I was out for a walk there was a
nearly invisible inverted cone with its point on the top of my head and
its axis tilted a bit to the vertical and precessing about that
vertical. In the cone I saw some nearly invisible flying beings. I
thought at the time that the cone extended to the stars. I call those
flying beings cone someones.

Taliesin (Gwion Bach) had 2, 4 and 5 and some evidence of 1, or an
experience like it, and some evidence of 3 (if the crack of the cauldron
is new moon) and for my other parallels I have evidence so far only for
some of the above, for example Krishna was described as the butter
thief, which I take to mean waning crescent highs, and fought with
demons, which I take to mean waxing gibbous moon (poison-nippled demon)
trial periods.

Also there may be other significant points that I fail to list above
that may be in my old paper and newsgroup, e-mail, e-mail mailing list,
web forum and web page old drafts or partial drafts, and current web
page writing which I will sort through and extract from later.
--
David Dalton ***@nfld.com http://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/nf.html Newfoundland&Labrador Travel & Music
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)
"Here I go again...back into the flame" (Sarah McLachlan)
Timothy Sutter
2013-02-23 19:18:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Dalton
Tonight I edited the Summary of key features of my cycles,
i hope you don't mind my injection here; but

it seems as if at some time, you had some sort of religious experience
which may very well have been a genuine religious experience, whereupon
you saw fit to appoint yourself as some sort of guide to bring other
people
into this same religious experience, placing your self on a pedestal of
sorts,
and in so doing, have managed to lead your self astray into meandering
wanderings
in a wilderness of self worship coupled with self doubt where you seem
to need
more help than you can be or are being to anyone else.

yes, i realize that David Dalton is not one of your stated "main
deities"

but it seems as if you spend a great deal of time and energy seeking
to maintain and justify your own importance, all the while drawing
a picture of your self as one who is in a state of utter confusion
and not as one who is actually leading anyone, including your self,
in to some state of higher conciousness.

believe it or not, i mean this, not as a denigration of your efforts

but, as a constructive criticism from someone who is a total stranger to
you,

but not a total stranger to religious experiences.

believe it or not, i realize that i am just a tiny speck of dust
on the cosmological balance, but, that i am on that balance,
nonetheless.

maybe, just perhaps, if you would refrain from seeking to elevate
yourself
to such lofty hights, you wouldn't keep crashing and burning and finding
yourself in a pit of disillusionment and would simply walk amongst
the common folk, many of whom, have already had meaningful
religious experiences without your guidance.

"gibbous this day our daily crescent roll" <=== (Timothy Sutter)
David Dalton
2013-02-27 02:52:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Timothy Sutter
Post by David Dalton
Tonight I edited the Summary of key features of my cycles,
i hope you don't mind my injection here; but
it seems as if at some time, you had some sort of religious experience
which may very well have been a genuine religious experience, whereupon
you saw fit to appoint yourself as some sort of guide to bring other
people
into this same religious experience, placing your self on a pedestal of
sorts,
and in so doing, have managed to lead your self astray into meandering
wanderings
in a wilderness of self worship coupled with self doubt where you seem
to need
more help than you can be or are being to anyone else.
yes, i realize that David Dalton is not one of your stated "main
deities"
but it seems as if you spend a great deal of time and energy seeking
to maintain and justify your own importance, all the while drawing
a picture of your self as one who is in a state of utter confusion
and not as one who is actually leading anyone, including your self,
in to some state of higher conciousness.
believe it or not, i mean this, not as a denigration of your efforts
but, as a constructive criticism from someone who is a total stranger to
you,
but not a total stranger to religious experiences.
believe it or not, i realize that i am just a tiny speck of dust
on the cosmological balance, but, that i am on that balance,
nonetheless.
maybe, just perhaps, if you would refrain from seeking to elevate
yourself
to such lofty hights, you wouldn't keep crashing and burning and finding
yourself in a pit of disillusionment and would simply walk amongst
the common folk, many of whom, have already had meaningful
religious experiences without your guidance.
"gibbous this day our daily crescent roll" <=== (Timothy Sutter)
Thanks for the feedback, Timothy.

By promoting my own religious experiences I am by no
means putting down the religious experiences of
others, and I encourage others including you to
talk about their religious experiences.

And by publicizing my own religious experiences I
am hoping to find out from my readers about more
past religious figures similar to me and perhaps
even about living humans similar to me.

And the main reason I am promoting similarity of
me to past religious figures is that due to such
similarity my readers might be more likely to
consider my messages (which I plan to edit soon)
carefully.

And as I state on my web page, I am not pushing
my deities, just those messages.

Also I state on my web page that I do not want
to be worshipped, and I certainly do not
worship myself.

But yes, in the low years, which I hope will
end soon, I have often been led down wrong
avenues.
--
David Dalton ***@nfld.com http://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/nf.html Newfoundland&Labrador Travel & Music
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)
"Here I go again...back into the flame" (Sarah McLachlan)
Timothy Sutter
2013-02-27 04:44:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Dalton
Post by Timothy Sutter
Post by David Dalton
Tonight I edited the Summary of key features of my cycles,
i hope you don't mind my injection here; but
<...>
Post by David Dalton
Post by Timothy Sutter
maybe, just perhaps, if you would refrain from seeking to elevate
yourself to such lofty hights, you wouldn't keep crashing and
burning and finding yourself in a pit of disillusionment and would
simply walk amongst the common folk, many of whom, have already
had meaningful religious experiences without your guidance.
"gibbous this day our daily crescent roll" <=== (Timothy Sutter)
Thanks for the feedback, Timothy.
By promoting my own religious experiences I am by no
means putting down the religious experiences of
others, and I encourage others including you to
talk about their religious experiences.
well, if what you say could be considered an attack on
other people's experiences, it is couched in your statements
that "prophets" and the like, are "schizoaffective and schizophrenic"

you say:
#So anyway past religious figures who got crossroads
#info from many muses and then spat out (or were
#inspired if you believe the religions) new main
#messages may have been diagnosed bipolar in modern
#times, those who supposedly (and maybe actually)
#got revelations may have been diagnosed as schizophrenic
#today (though I supect maybe Mohammed was inspired
#to write the Koran and didn't really hear a voice
#but perhaps I'm wrong) and those who got an intermediate
#amount of both inspiration and revelation might have
#been diagnosed as schizoaffective today.


so, in some respects, you seem to suggest that
past figures, whom you claim to be "the next"
were schizophrenic and/or schizoaffective.


you have said things like this;

#i am the next avatar/buddha/christ/messiah/Prophet type.

#I use he term "opener of the way" for myself and claim to be
#similar to past figures such as Moses, Jesus, Gautama Siddharta,
#Krishna, Mohammed, Lao Tzu and Gwion (Taliesin) among others.
#Terms that have been used for them include avatar, buddha,
#christ, messiah and Prophet.


you seem to claim to be "like" Moses and then say
that you have some sort of mental disorder and
in so doing, imply that Moses had a mental disorder.

and similarly with other folks like Jesus and Mohammed et al.

mind you, i have not said that you have a mental disorder,

though, you may, but that is your own self description.


maybe you don't mean to suggest that
such people are mentally deranged.


do you?


do you mean to imply that Moses was mentally deranged?
Post by David Dalton
And by publicizing my own religious experiences I
am hoping to find out from my readers about more
past religious figures similar to me and perhaps
even about living humans similar to me.
but you certainly don't want to say;

"i have a mental disorder, i feel like Moses,
therefore, Moses had a mental disorder"

do you?

you wouldn't be trying to suggest that anyone who
speaks about such experiences with a Deity type
are, in fact, deranged simply because you see fit
to classify your self along such lines.

no, you don't say that you are schizophrenic

but you seem to want to imply that anyone who
gets revelation from God or a god or Deity
in general, is schizophrenic.
Post by David Dalton
And the main reason I am promoting similarity of
me to past religious figures is that due to such
similarity my readers might be more likely to
consider my messages (which I plan to edit soon)
carefully.
you may very well be saying;

"hay everybody, I'm the new Jesus, listen to me"

but, in some repsects, it comes across like;

"hay everybody, i'm crazy as cat shit,
and i'm just like Jesus and Moses and ...KRSNA?"
Post by David Dalton
And as I state on my web page, I am not pushing
my deities, just those messages.
you seem to deify inanimate objects.

i'm asking this seriously,

can you communicate with a brick?
Post by David Dalton
Also I state on my web page that I do not want
to be worshipped, and I certainly do not
worship myself.
you seem to enjoy being diagnosed by doctors.

so, i'm wondering, what "way" are you opening

or trying to open or show people?


you certainly don't mean to suggest this do you?


"hay everybody, I just met the Holy Spirit so,
if you have also met the Holy Spirit, go see
a doctor and that doctor will fix you good"


if you claim to be some sort of "opener of the way"

and claim that you've had special revelations

from some sort of "god"

are you taking drugs to make it go away?


was your self described experience a bad one?
Post by David Dalton
But yes, in the low years, which I hope will
end soon, I have often been led down wrong
avenues.
this is what seems problematic, you seem to be
claiming to be some sort of "leader" who is
being "led" down the wrong path.

so, do you really want to "lead" other people
down blind alleys and maybe even "lead" people
in to some sort of ditch?

or have you just managed to lead your self
in to a ditch and need some help getting
out of there?

or been led in to a ditch and need help
getting out of there?


//a passing tow truck driver...
Timothy Sutter
2013-02-27 06:17:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Timothy Sutter
Post by David Dalton
Post by Timothy Sutter
"gibbous this day our daily crescent roll" <=== (Timothy Sutter)
Thanks for the feedback, Timothy.
By promoting my own religious experiences
are you taking drugs to make it go away?
was your self described experience a bad one?
so, this is my difficulty here;

you claim to have had or to be having some sort of
"religious experience," and that you seem to feel that
this experience is one that you would like to share with
other people in the hopes that other people may gain access
or share in the same sort of religious experience as you
claim for yourself, and then you seem to be seeking help
to make this experience go away.

people usually go to see doctors because they feel ill
and want remediation of discomforting symptoms.

so, which is it?

a good experience that you want others to share in

or a bad experience that you want others to run like hell from?

you might be interested in this;

===
Acts 26:24-25

While he(Paul) was making this defense, Festus exclaimed,
"You are out of your mind, Paul! Too much learning
is driving you insane!" But Paul said, "I am not
out of my mind, most excellent Festus, but I am
speaking the sober truth."
===

which are you?
David Dalton
2013-02-28 02:40:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Timothy Sutter
Post by Timothy Sutter
Post by David Dalton
Post by Timothy Sutter
"gibbous this day our daily crescent roll" <=== (Timothy Sutter)
Thanks for the feedback, Timothy.
By promoting my own religious experiences
are you taking drugs to make it go away?
was your self described experience a bad one?
so, this is my difficulty here;
you claim to have had or to be having some sort of
"religious experience," and that you seem to feel that
this experience is one that you would like to share with
other people in the hopes that other people may gain access
or share in the same sort of religious experience as you
claim for yourself, and then you seem to be seeking help
to make this experience go away.
people usually go to see doctors because they feel ill
and want remediation of discomforting symptoms.
so, which is it?
a good experience that you want others to share in
or a bad experience that you want others to run like hell from?
you might be interested in this;
===
Acts 26:24-25
While he(Paul) was making this defense, Festus exclaimed,
"You are out of your mind, Paul! Too much learning
is driving you insane!" But Paul said, "I am not
out of my mind, most excellent Festus, but I am
speaking the sober truth."
===
which are you?
Once again I am in (and hopefully near the end of) a period
of low/wilderness/foresaken/cremation ground/trial/ascetic
years, which for many past figures lasted 7 years
but for me have lasted slightly over 17 years so far.
At the end (hopefully soon) of these low years I
may, like the Buddha at the end of his ascetic years
or Finn when the Salmon of Wisdom is caught, attain
wisdom/enlightenment/awakening which I would then
share with my readers. I do not want my readers to
go through what I have gone through but they may
reap the benefits at the end of my journey. For now I
list twelve main deities which I am not pushing on my
readers, and some messages which I am pushing. I plan
to edit those messages soon but I expect I will edit them
even more when I come out of the low years.
--
David Dalton ***@nfld.com http://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/nf.html Newfoundland&Labrador Travel & Music
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)
"Here I go again...back into the flame" (Sarah McLachlan)
Timothy Sutter
2013-02-28 06:10:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Dalton
Post by Timothy Sutter
Post by Timothy Sutter
Post by David Dalton
Post by Timothy Sutter
"gibbous this day our daily crescent roll" <=== (Timothy Sutter)
Thanks for the feedback, Timothy.
By promoting my own religious experiences
are you taking drugs to make it go away?
was your self described experience a bad one?
so, this is my difficulty here;
you claim to have had or to be having some sort of
"religious experience," and that you seem to feel that
this experience is one that you would like to share with
other people in the hopes that other people may gain access
or share in the same sort of religious experience as you
claim for yourself, and then you seem to be seeking help
to make this experience go away.
people usually go to see doctors because they feel ill
and want remediation of discomforting symptoms.
so, which is it?
a good experience that you want others to share in
or a bad experience that you want others to run like hell from?
you might be interested in this;
===
Acts 26:24-25
While he(Paul) was making this defense, Festus exclaimed,
"You are out of your mind, Paul! Too much learning
is driving you insane!" But Paul said, "I am not
out of my mind, most excellent Festus, but I am
speaking the sober truth."
===
which are you?
Once again I am in (and hopefully near the end of) a period
of low/wilderness/foresaken/cremation ground/trial/ascetic
years, which for many past figures lasted 7 years
but for me have lasted slightly over 17 years so far.
well look, you say that jacob went thru one of these
7 year bits and Jacob was working for some man to get
one of that man's daughters as a wife so, Jacob wasn't
exactly imagining that he was being tortured
by scorpions in the desert.

ok, fine, here's a situation for you;

let's imagine that psychiatrists are agents
of this "God" named "Humana" and they must spend 7 years
in the toil of this fantasy world called "medical school"
where they suffer from mental anguish and the
torturous initiations of "Humana" their Deity.

according to your thinking, these potential psychiatrists
are schizophrenic prophets of "Humana" being initiatied by
their sponsor, and if they manage to suffer through the
toils of this initiation, they immediately, lose the label
"schizophrenic" and become a peculiar brand of M.D.

or do they?

do they ever really lose the label of being diagnosed by you
as schizophrenic even if they come to hold the credentials
of a peculiar type of M.D.?

at any rate, then it becomes a matter of how you define
a particular word and you haven't really told me anything
about "prophets" or people who may actually gather up
some sort of communication with "God"

=one= of whose -guises- may be AS "Humana"

i just don't want to make it something like;

"oooh, all the -best people- are schizophrenics"

because, as defined in other situations, "schizophrenia"
is a debilitating problem that never seems to get better.

and i wouldn't want these agents of "Humana"

to get it in their minds that they must hunt down people
who say they beleive in and are affected by "God" and wrap
them up in straight jackets and inject drugs in to their veins,
many of which have debilitiating =side effects= such
as "tardive diskinesia"

and so, these agents of "Humana" become modern day witch hunters
purposefully ruining the lives of mild mannered God affected types.

we wouldn't want this would we?

"doctor, this man has confessed to being
indwelled with the holy spirit, what should we do"

"bring him in and we'll begin the process of vegification immediately"

and before you know it, that man is a vegatable...

-just like- the psychiatrists who made -themselves-
vegetables with a small implant to the back of
the neck which feeds the cortex with vegetable juice.

and the viscous cycle continues...

no, =i'm= not denigrating psychiatry

just think of this as "psychodrama"

but it -could be- "reallity"

"everybody is schizophrenic, including
the psychiatrists who affix the labels"

except, i haven't exactly heard any

"modern psychiatrist" calling Moses a schizophrenic

but if it makes -you- feel comfortable to do so

you -may- have a peculiar understanding

and definition of "schizophrenia"

and not one actually held -by- a "modern psychiatrist"

etc.
David Dalton
2013-03-01 00:59:24 UTC
Permalink
I think Moses was probably bipolar like me and
was inspired to his messages rather than
receiving them via a voice in his head.

But if he did have a voice in his head and
told that to a modern psychiatrist he would
be diagnosed as schizophrenic or schizoaffective.

As you say, if the psychiatrist was there on
the mount with Moses and also heard the
voice of God he or she might then not label
Moses as mentally ill. And in my case if
my psychiatrist had been with me when I
had a blue rose vision and also saw the blue
rose he or she might treat me differently.

Also here is an old post of mine that might
be of interest. It describes some cases,
including some of seven years of trial (though
not I think similar to me), where someone
has gone through years of mental illness
only to graduate as a shaman with little
mental illness. (Also note that I am not
planning to start a new religion but to provide
glue of commonality in a mosaic of diversity.)

---------------------------------------------

On The Icarus Project web site http://theicarusproject.net
I found an interesting article on insanity and shamanism.

It is

"When Insanity is a Blessing: The Message of Shamanism," chapter
from Holger Kalweit's Shamans, Healers, and Medicine Men.

and is found in the file

http://www.theicarusproject.net/files/KalweitInsanityBlessing.PDF

which I found opened the file in a window, but I wanted
to save it to a file so I went to

http://theicarusproject.net/articles/wheninsanityablessingmessageshamanis
m?kalweit

and since I am on a Mac I Ctrl-clicked the link but on
a Windows machine you would right click the link.

Now in the early years of my low years I called myself
a global shaman (these days I call myself an Opener
of the Way) but from the article I don't think I will
graduate as a shaman until I am out of the low years.
In the article a low period of seven years was mentioned
in at least two cases, and I think many past Openers
of the Way had seven years of low years, but mine have
now lasted over 16.5 years, so much longer I think since
lithium and olanzapine have made it easier for me.
--
David Dalton ***@nfld.com http://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/nf.html Newfoundland&Labrador Travel & Music
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)
"Here I go again...back into the flame" (Sarah McLachlan)
Timothy Sutter
2013-03-01 14:09:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Dalton
I think Moses was probably bipolar like me and
was inspired to his messages rather than
receiving them via a voice in his head.
But if he did have a voice in his head and
told that to a modern psychiatrist he would
be diagnosed as schizophrenic or schizoaffective.
I think Moses was probably bipolar like me and
was inspired to his messages rather than
receiving them via a voice in his head.
But if he did have a voice in his head and
told that to a modern psychiatrist he would
be diagnosed as schizophrenic or schizoaffective.
have you ever heard of two people hearing
the same "voice" at the same time?


12:1 And YHWH spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,

12:43 And YHWH said unto Moses and Aaron, This is <...>


and many people are said to have seen and heard noises
and thunderings from the place where Moses is said to
be "hearing" things. so, this doesn't seem to be a
"voices in my head" phenomenon.


19:9 And YHWH said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud,
that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe
thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto YHWH.

19:11 And be ready against the third day: for the third day YHWH
will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.

20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings,
and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and
when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear:
but let not God speak with us, lest we die.


20:22 And YHWH said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the
children of Israel,Ye have seen that I have talked
with you from heaven.
Post by David Dalton
As you say, if the psychiatrist was there on
the mount with Moses and also heard the
voice of God he or she might then not label
Moses as mentally ill.
maybe there was an "ancient psychiatrist" among the 'people'

who said, "welp, this isn't just moses hearing voices"

so, i'm not going to join you in your opinion at this time.
Post by David Dalton
And in my case if
my psychiatrist had been with me when I
had a blue rose vision and also saw the blue
rose he or she might treat me differently.
who do you believe, your self or the psychiatrist?
David Dalton
2013-03-02 00:27:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Timothy Sutter
Post by David Dalton
And in my case if
my psychiatrist had been with me when I
had a blue rose vision and also saw the blue
rose he or she might treat me differently.
who do you believe, your self or the psychiatrist?
Well, I know the vision was such that the rose
appeared in front of me as if it was really
there, not just in my mind's eye. That is, it
appeared as if someone else who was there would
also have seen it. But then it wouldn't have
counted as a vision. And my past psychiatrist
didn't say what he thought of the vision, though
he said I had a tendency to magical thinking. I
have only met twice with my new psychiatrist and
mentioned the vision to him once and he said I
was psychotic. I haven't given him the URL for
my Salmon on the Thorns web page yet, I want
to make the transition from lithium to Epival
first, and get to know him a bit better, and
tidy up the web page some.

As for two people at once hearing the same
voice in their heads, I haven't heard of
any cases like that. If it did occur then
I think it should not be considered psychotic
but a true voice confirmed by comparison
between the two recipients.

The rumblings/etc that you mention may have
been volcanic activity or may have been
a thunderstorm.

I am not Christian, and I don't take the
bible literally.
--
David Dalton ***@nfld.com http://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/nf.html Newfoundland&Labrador Travel & Music
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)
"Here I go again...back into the flame" (Sarah McLachlan)
David Dalton
2013-02-28 02:32:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Timothy Sutter
Post by David Dalton
Post by Timothy Sutter
Post by David Dalton
Tonight I edited the Summary of key features of my cycles,
i hope you don't mind my injection here; but
<...>
Post by David Dalton
Post by Timothy Sutter
maybe, just perhaps, if you would refrain from seeking to elevate
yourself to such lofty hights, you wouldn't keep crashing and
burning and finding yourself in a pit of disillusionment and would
simply walk amongst the common folk, many of whom, have already
had meaningful religious experiences without your guidance.
"gibbous this day our daily crescent roll" <=== (Timothy Sutter)
Thanks for the feedback, Timothy.
By promoting my own religious experiences I am by no
means putting down the religious experiences of
others, and I encourage others including you to
talk about their religious experiences.
well, if what you say could be considered an attack on
other people's experiences, it is couched in your statements
that "prophets" and the like, are "schizoaffective and schizophrenic"
I formerly defined prophets as bipolars, schizoaffectives,
and schizophrenics (all of them) but now I define
BSSes as bipolars, schizoaffectives, and schizophrenics.
Then BSSes who are ordained by one of their deities
and chosen as an agent by that deity are prophets
of that deity. But I am still saying that any prophets
would be diagnosed as bipolar, schizoaffective, or
schizophrenic if interviewed by a modern psychiatrist.
Post by Timothy Sutter
#So anyway past religious figures who got crossroads
#info from many muses and then spat out (or were
#inspired if you believe the religions) new main
#messages may have been diagnosed bipolar in modern
#times, those who supposedly (and maybe actually)
#got revelations may have been diagnosed as schizophrenic
#today (though I supect maybe Mohammed was inspired
#to write the Koran and didn't really hear a voice
#but perhaps I'm wrong) and those who got an intermediate
#amount of both inspiration and revelation might have
#been diagnosed as schizoaffective today.
so, in some respects, you seem to suggest that
past figures, whom you claim to be "the next"
were schizophrenic and/or schizoaffective.
I am saying they would be diagnosed as bipolar (or
possibly schizoaffective) by a modern psychiatrist,
as I have been. The years of trial, which I also
call low years, for such a figure (often lasting
seven years) are indistinguishable from mental
illness. You might find some of the material on
http://www.theicarusproject.net/ enlightening.
But when the low years end I hope that I will be
able to gradually come off medications and that
I might no longer be considered mentally ill,
and that I will enter into a period of steady
creativity.
Post by Timothy Sutter
you have said things like this;
#i am the next avatar/buddha/christ/messiah/Prophet type.
#I use he term "opener of the way" for myself and claim to be
#similar to past figures such as Moses, Jesus, Gautama Siddharta,
#Krishna, Mohammed, Lao Tzu and Gwion (Taliesin) among others.
#Terms that have been used for them include avatar, buddha,
#christ, messiah and Prophet.
you seem to claim to be "like" Moses and then say
that you have some sort of mental disorder and
in so doing, imply that Moses had a mental disorder.
and similarly with other folks like Jesus and Mohammed et al.
mind you, i have not said that you have a mental disorder,
though, you may, but that is your own self description.
maybe you don't mean to suggest that
such people are mentally deranged.
do you?
Yes, I am suggesting that they went through initiation
years similar to mine and low or trial years similar
to mine, when they would have been diagnosed as
bipoolar or schizoaffective by a modern psychiatrist.
But those low years ended and they entered into a
period of steady creativity and low or no mental
health problems.
Post by Timothy Sutter
do you mean to imply that Moses was mentally deranged?
Yes, at times, I do.
Post by Timothy Sutter
Post by David Dalton
And by publicizing my own religious experiences I
am hoping to find out from my readers about more
past religious figures similar to me and perhaps
even about living humans similar to me.
but you certainly don't want to say;
"i have a mental disorder, i feel like Moses,
therefore, Moses had a mental disorder"
do you?
I am saying that the burning in the bush in the
case of Moses was a burning (or glowing) blue
rose vision similar to mine. And the heavens
opening and wings descending in the baptism of
Jesus is similar to what happened during and
after my sun stare, when I was highly manic.
Post by Timothy Sutter
you wouldn't be trying to suggest that anyone who
speaks about such experiences with a Deity type
are, in fact, deranged simply because you see fit
to classify your self along such lines.
no, you don't say that you are schizophrenic
No, I say that I am diagnosed and treated as
bipolar, but without meds I probably would
be diagnosed as schizoaffective.
Post by Timothy Sutter
but you seem to want to imply that anyone who
gets revelation from God or a god or Deity
in general, is schizophrenic.
I am saying they would be diagnosed as schizophrenic
or schizoaffective if interviewed by a modern psychiatrist.
Post by Timothy Sutter
Post by David Dalton
And the main reason I am promoting similarity of
me to past religious figures is that due to such
similarity my readers might be more likely to
consider my messages (which I plan to edit soon)
carefully.
you may very well be saying;
"hay everybody, I'm the new Jesus, listen to me"
but, in some repsects, it comes across like;
"hay everybody, i'm crazy as cat shit,
and i'm just like Jesus and Moses and ...KRSNA?"
Post by David Dalton
And as I state on my web page, I am not pushing
my deities, just those messages.
you seem to deify inanimate objects.
i'm asking this seriously,
can you communicate with a brick?
I believe a brick can have a soul, though it might
be a very small one. But I also believe in the
consciousness of matter and that the moon may have
a large higher dimensional part, and may be
conscious and fairly powerful.
Post by Timothy Sutter
Post by David Dalton
Also I state on my web page that I do not want
to be worshipped, and I certainly do not
worship myself.
you seem to enjoy being diagnosed by doctors.
No, but they have eased my low years a lot, though
that may be why my low years have now been over
17 years instead of 7 years, so that I suffer
just as much as past figures (e.g. Jacob) who
have had 7 years of toil/trial.
Post by Timothy Sutter
so, i'm wondering, what "way" are you opening
or trying to open or show people?
you certainly don't mean to suggest this do you?
"hay everybody, I just met the Holy Spirit so,
if you have also met the Holy Spirit, go see
a doctor and that doctor will fix you good"
if you claim to be some sort of "opener of the way"
and claim that you've had special revelations
from some sort of "god"
are you taking drugs to make it go away?
was your self described experience a bad one?
I am not trying to make anyone follow in my
footsteps by repeating my experiences (such as
the sun stare). I am, like many others,
preaching messages of love and tolerance.
I am taking drugs to minimize the effects of
the low years and I hope to be able to come
off them when the low years end. I also
expect I will reach some kind of enlightenment
(or salmon of wisdom) when the low years end,
which I will then share with my readers.
Post by Timothy Sutter
Post by David Dalton
But yes, in the low years, which I hope will
end soon, I have often been led down wrong
avenues.
this is what seems problematic, you seem to be
claiming to be some sort of "leader" who is
being "led" down the wrong path.
so, do you really want to "lead" other people
down blind alleys and maybe even "lead" people
in to some sort of ditch?
or have you just managed to lead your self
in to a ditch and need some help getting
out of there?
or been led in to a ditch and need help
getting out of there?
You have a point there, I will not be considered
any kind of leader until my low years end.
--
David Dalton ***@nfld.com http://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/nf.html Newfoundland&Labrador Travel & Music
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)
"Here I go again...back into the flame" (Sarah McLachlan)
Timothy Sutter
2013-02-27 22:30:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Dalton
Post by Timothy Sutter
do you mean to imply that Moses was mentally deranged?
Yes, at times, I do.
i may look at more of your post,
but, i have a question for you;

if a psychiatrist followed Moses around and
walked up on the little mount with Moses
and saw exactly the same thing as Moses saw

would the psychiatrist deliver up a different diagnosis,

or would -you- simply diagnose the psychiatrist

as having schizophrenia?
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